JP1 Remotes

[jdoss]

I just uploaded a file to the diagnosis area - Mitsubishi_Netcommand_Learned.txt, and I would like for one of you experts to look at it. I have not been able to find any information on this protocol.

DecodeIR.dll decodes it as *two* sets of "Mitsubishi Protocol, device 71", which matches TV/0150. TV/0150 does not work correctly, though. Any buttons using TV/0150 are seen by the TV as two key presses. If the button is held, it repeats in increments of two (4 presses, 6, etc.).

I learned several of the keys from the original remote, and uploaded them in this file. "Down", "Left", and "TV/Video" were learned with what I think is the "correct" learning procedure, where I held down the key on the original remote, until the LED on the 1994 went off, then released the key on the original remote. These keys don't work correctly, however: The TV sees each single press as two keypresses, and repeats in multiples of two.

For the "Up" and "Right" keys, I learned them by tapping the key on the original remote and releasing it. These learned keys are still decoded as two sets of Mitsubishi:71, but these are closer to working correctly. Each press is seen by the TV as a single keypress, but there are no repeats.

I would like to find a protocol that will duplicate the original remote, including repeating when the key is held down.

Can one of you help?

Thanks,
Joe Doss

[jon_armstrong]

Joe,

You are using a 1994 right? That Mitsubishi IR protocol has been around a long time and it is supposed to repeat. Also on the eeeprom image that you posted all setup codes are set to 0000 with exception of the TV. One of the steps you need to do before making changes to IR is get the existing EEPROM image by downloading the image (remote|download from remote). Then make your changes in IR and Remote|Upload to remote.


Try doing a 9-8-1 reset and then change the setup code to the TV to TV_150. Don't learn any commands and see if the basic commands now work in TV_0150.
_________________
-Jon

[jdoss]

Jon,

I have had the same behavior with a 2116 and a 1994 remote. The 2116 is the one I use everyday, so I decided to experiment with the 1994, in trying to isolate the behavior. I zeroed all the other devices, and deleted the keymoves and macros in IR.exe before saving the configuration, so there would just be the relevant code in the uploaded file, and you wouldn't have to look through anything irrelevant.

I tried what you suggested, and did a 9-8-1 reset on the 1994, then just set the TV to 0150. I get the same doubling, where the TV interprets each keypress as two presses. While using the TV/0150 keys, the TV also periodically prints "Please reset the remote to NetCommand mode" on the screen.

The owners manual states that you have to set the factory remote to "NetCommand Mode" (holding power and pressing 9-3-5) in order to use any NetCommand functions. In the past, I have tried learning and decoding the signals from the factory remote in "Default Mode" (power-0-0-0), and in NetCommand mode. All the keys in the default mode learn and decode as single "Mitsubishi:71" codes, but When the remote is set to NetCommand mode, they are different, and decode as doubled "Mitsubishi:71" codes, as in the file I uploaded.

I just learned several more keys from the original remote in NetCommand mode, then switched it to default mode, and learned a few more -- I uploaded this file in the same location as the first one. You can see that the TV/Video, 5 and 6 keys all decode as perfect "Mitsubishi:71" -- These were learned from the original remote in default mode, and the TV behaves the same with them as using TV/0150. The rest of the keys are learned from the original remote in NetCommand mode -- You can see that they decode differently.

Any ideas how I might reproduce this NetCommand protocol with a device upgrade?

Thanks for your help,
Joe

[jon_armstrong]

Joe,

I have heard of the NetCommand mode but don't know what it does since I don't have any Mitsubishi gear. I think that if set to the default mode, all the discrete commands can be used (power Off, On, inputs).

So the first question is do you need the NetComand mode for something else?

Second, if you learn a NetCommand mode command in your 1994 or 2116 and use that learned command, does it work properly?

The answer to that question is important, since there may be other commands that the OEM remote is transmitting but only part of that is being learned.

Here is something posted a while back by Eric Johnson regarding Mitsubishi RPTV's:

"There are discrete codes posted in the Pronto files section of this website that work on many Mitsubishi sets.

Here are some workarounds for others:

Old Mits TV’s:
Go to User Setup Menus and enable Mitsubishi Active AV Network. This enables VCR “A” Play command to act as ON and EXT 1 command

New Mits TV’s:
Press and hold the power command and enter 090. Now, power=on, stop=off, two step macros for all inputs:input, PIP=DTV;input, 1=EXT1; likewise inputs 2,3,4; input, 5=DVD component 1; input, 6=component 2; input, SQV=Input STB; input, QV=Input VGA; input, PIP CH UP = Ant A; input, PIP CH DN =ANT B"

I don't know whether that will work or is relevant to what you need. Also, how old is the Mitsubishi TV?
_________________
-Jon

[johnsfine]

You'll notice in those learned signals that the repeat has strange timing. Every other gap between frames is extra long.

I assume the device expects exactly two frames (at normal speed) for a normal keypress. The original remote delays before the third frame so that the user would need a significantly long keypress to get more than two frames, which the device interprets as wanting to execute the command more than once.

The UEI remote normally sends more than 2 frames and has the same gap between frames every time.

Rob and "Mr Cinema 7" and I (and I'm not sure who else) know how to tweak a UEI protocol that way: Normally send exactly two frames for either a typical keypress or use in a macro, and for long keypresses alternate between the normal frame gap and one about a tenth of a second longer than normal.

I don't have time to do it today (maybe later in the week). I don't know if Jon knows a way to do that tweak or if someone else who knows has time.

[jdoss]

Jon,

I have all the discretes working fine; They are all simple single Mitsubishi:71 (TV/0150) codes, found by learning from the remote set to 0-9-0 mode, as you described. I don't know if the TV actually interprets each of the discretes as two key presses or one, but for the discretes, it doesn't matter.

The keys that do matter (partially) are ones like pause, FF, REW (in order to control the firewire-connected Mits DVHS VCR, the TV has to issue transport commands through firewire). With TV/0150 codes, it sees each key press as two, so "Pause" becomes "Pause, then immediately Un-pause", etc. Other keys like "Guide" and "Info" also toggle on/off with two key presses.

Even these work fine when I learn them with a single press & release (as opposed to holding down the original button). They do not repeat, but I don't need repeats for Pause, REW, FF, Guide, Info, etc. I would prefer not to take up all the learning memory on the 2116 or 1994, but I can live with it.

The truly annoying keys are the arrows -- In order to set-up a firewire-based recording, I have to set the start time by scrolling up and down minute-by-minute, through potentially 24-hours (1440 minutes). The TV scrolls the minutes very rapidly when you hold down the up or down arrows on the original remote, and moves one minute at-a-time with single presses of up or down. I have not been able to re-create this behavior on a UEI remote – TV/0150 or learning with the button held down both give me the fast scroll on repeats, but no way to move minute-by-minute, because it sees each single press as two. Learning the arrows with a quick “Press & Release” gives me the minute-by-minute changes, but no repeats, so I have to press the button hundreds of times to reach the desired time. I would be very happy if I just had the up and down arrows working as they do on the original remote, in Netcommand mode.

This is a 2001 model Mitsubishi WS-65869, one of the first with NetCommand/firewire and an integrated HDTV tuner.

johnsfine: Thanks for looking at these. If you have time later in the week to tweak a protocol for these unusual gaps, I would love to try it out. I really want to use this on a 2116 (LCD remote), not the 1994 that I uploaded. (I understand the protocol code is different for LCD & non-LCD UEI remotes?)

Thanks, both of you, for looking at this.

Joe

[jon_armstrong]

Joe,

I just posted a file created by Protocol Builder to produce exactly two commands with the longer gap between commands. It is in the diagnosis area as NetCommands.zip.

There are three files. 1994.txt is the image from my 1994 and the commands are on the exact same keys as you learned them but on the cable device. All you need to do is load that image in your 1994 and test.

If that works then there is a KM Master file that has the device and protocol upgrade and a PB file just FYI or in case you want or need to tweak the protocol.

For any astute Mitsubishi protocol experts I reversed the One/Zero definitions so that Mitsubishi TV_0150 EFC's work although the KM Master file is set up to use OBC's.

Joe, uif this works you can actually clear all the assigned keys in the functions tab and add the "keyless" device upgrade using IR and then use key moves to place the keys where you want them in your TV device.

John, FYI if you are watching this thread I am pretty sure that the "forced" choice on PB (and I checked back as far as v1.15 doesn't work as advertised). I used minimum=2/repeat=None and get exactly two repeats even when used in a macro (which is what we want in this case but, I don't think it is supposed to work this way).
_________________
-Jon

[johnsfine]

[jdoss]

[johnsfine]

[jon_armstrong]

I think we can just use PB with a mid frame gap for the repeating arrow commands. four 8-bit bytes of fixed data and one byte of variable data and the mini combiner; a little ugly but for only four keys that is not too bad. I'll post that tomorrow.

I have edited this a couple of times to try and get the number of data bits correct!
_________________
-Jon

[pH7_jp1]

THANKS to everyone for digging into this. I have been living with this irratation on my Mits TV for quite a while. I don't use the NetCommand feature, but the arrow keys still have this problem when in some of the menus. It will be great to have it working right.

[jon_armstrong]

I have posted a file Mitsubishi NetCommands Arrows.zip in the diagnosis area. Same as before, I have included the 1994 EEPROM image and the arrows are on the TV device on the arrows. Let us know if this works. The PB and KM Master files are also there.
_________________
-Jon

[jdoss]

[jon_armstrong]

This gets more curious. I decoded the Pronto hex file from the link and here is what the arrow keys do:

All have the SAME gap between frames. It looks like the final off time is such that the total frame length is 53.4 mS.

Down -- 4 repeats of 71:73
Left -- a fragment and 4 repeats of71:101
Right -- 5 repeats of 71:109
Up -- fragment and 2 repeats of 71:065

Each of these commands are learned as a one time command (not repeating).

I started to suspect that maybe the interpretation of two commands is due to the gap between frames being too long. The ccf file has gaps between frames from 23 mS to 26 mS and I learned some TV_0150 commands from my 7800 with Tommy Tyler's IR Analyzer. The power command has a 28mS gap between frames. (incorrect information edited out)

Let's try this as an experiment, key move:

UP EFC 169
DN EFC 041
LT EFC 200
RT EFC 072

To both Numerals 1 through 4 AND the cursor keys. (The commands on the built in setup code are not the cursors you learned)

See if either of those work. [The numeral keys will have the altenating short and long gap between frames -- note:this is incorect I was lookin at keys with learned data on them]. The cursor keys will be nearly exactly like the ccf file.

John, Rob, others any better ideas?
_________________
-Jon