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Motorola vip 1853 - need pronto hex
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spicemint



Joined: 07 Oct 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here the picture of the remote again:
http://www.kpn.com/is-bin/intershop.static/WFS/KPN-B2C-Site/KPN-B2C/nl_NL/Televisie/Interactieve%20TV/110529-150x200-afstandsbediening.png
@vickyg2003: it is for sure a motorola vip1853 and for sure a ruwido remote

then i tried with irrecord with "-f" force option which resulted in this config file: http://pastebin.com/ZG2h6SXR

added the config to my lircd.config and tested with irw, see here results:
http://pastebin.com/cq0sqMDY
i pushed all buttons but for some reasons it seems to see all buttons as key1 or key3 I suppose that relates to the entries in the config so deleted key1 and key3 entry from lircd.conf to see if it would recognize the other buttons but no such luck
it seems like for some buttons recognition works some of the time and for others not at all

i did some digging on the internet, found out that i probably need to make use of r-step protocol based on this:
http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-discrete/thread.cgi?6871
but not sure how to use r-step stuff in lirc if someone can point me here much appreciated.

the IR transmitter is DIY, i got it here (it's in german but google translate does a good job):
http://www.vdr-portal.de/board18-vdr-hardware/board13-fernbedienungen/116157-yausbir-v3-lirc-usb-ir-empf%C3%A4nger-sender-einschalter/
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spicemint



Joined: 07 Oct 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
spicemint,
It may be worth trying a frequency of 38 KHz. Sometimes the cable provider asks for a different frequency.

tried that as well, no luck, but i think for kpn motorola vip1853 it needs to be 56khz at least that's what i gather from the internet and kpn forum
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6946
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spicemint wrote:
3FG wrote:
spicemint,
It may be worth trying a frequency of 38 KHz. Sometimes the cable provider asks for a different frequency.

tried that as well, no luck, but i think for kpn motorola vip1853 it needs to be 56khz at least that's what i gather from the internet and kpn forum

This signal is obviously not the motorola vip1853 as we know it. This signal doesn't look like any signal that I remember seeing, ever!

Quote:
i did some digging on the internet, found out that i probably need to make use of r-step protocol based on this:
http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-discrete/thread.cgi?6871
Nope, that is the CanalSatLD signal that is not working for you.

What we are seeing here is some sort of Phase encoded nut-job-protocol, You have on times of 200, 300, 500, 600, 800 off times from 200- 3000 something. Which would make me think there is something with a zero on time in there.

So am I to understand that none of these will playback and work the VIP1853? Specifically the key_5, key_9 and key_0 and key_EPG?
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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spicemint



Joined: 07 Oct 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So am I to understand that none of these will playback and work the VIP1853? Specifically the key_5, key_9 and key_0 and key_EPG?

correct none work, in some previous attempts i managed to get the 1 and 2 button to work that was it
any other ideas?
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Barf
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spicemint wrote:

then i tried with irrecord with "-f" force option which resulted in this config file: http://pastebin.com/ZG2h6SXR


Decoding this file shows what appears to be almost completely noise (Almost all signals have different length; some very short). IrScrutinizer (using DecodeIR 2.44) recognizes only key_0 and key_down, which, believe it or not, decodes as CanalSatLD, device=37, subdevice=0, and obc=10 and 13 respectivelly; i.e. exactly the signals we had on page 1! Surprised

It should be pointed out that you do not have any frequency measurement. The guide for your driver (I read German) uses a TSOP*38 (decodes 38kHz modulated signals), but obviously with suboptimal result.

Have you used your setup for controlling anything else previously?
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT I see that BARF already found these to be the very CanalSATLD signals that are not working.

BARF when am I going to get my hands on this IRScrutinizer?

Quote:
It should be pointed out that you do not have any frequency measurement. The guide for your driver (I read German) uses a TSOP*38 (decodes 38kHz modulated signals), but obviously with suboptimal result.
Again, does that mean that it doesn't like high frequency signals like this 56K signal?

Last edited by vickyg2003 on Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6946
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
- IR senden (Trägerfrequenz 30kHz bis 42kHz default 38kHz, per lircd.conf IN ARBEIT!)
- IR senden mit Trägerfrequenz 455KHz, B&O kompatibel (auf Anfrage, kein Mehrpreis)

When I read things like that when I was looking at buying an IRTransceiver, I took that to mean that it wouldn't work with high-frequency signals, ie CanalsatLD 56kHz.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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Barf
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:

BARF when am I going to get my hands on this IRScrutinizer?

Targeting for early November. Believe me, I am putting almost all of my free time into this.


Quote:

Quote:
It should be pointed out that you do not have any frequency measurement. The guide for your driver (I read German) uses a TSOP*38 (decodes 38kHz modulated signals), but obviously with suboptimal result.
Again, does that mean that it doesn't like high frequency signals like this 56K signal?

As input yes, a priori not on output. However, scrutinizing the LIRC driver hw_yausbir.c (from the diff file) reveals
Code:

if (freq > 42000) freq = 42000;

(from ya_usbir_send) which I think settles the issue. For the non-programmer: A frequency over 42k is quietly replaced by 42k! (On the side: IMHO, a programmer handling "erroneous" input values that way should be tarred and feathered . Evil or Very Mad Correct would be to throw a fatal error.)

Summarizing: there is a good reason to believe that spicemint's box really uses the 56kHz protocol discussed on page 1. However, the driver quietly "fixes" the "erroneous" frequency, thus no functioning. It may or may not be fixed in the driver.
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spicemint



Joined: 07 Oct 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great info Barf!! thanks i contacted the developer and he even already adjusted the code also ordered tsop with 56khz support which i will have tomorrow or they day after and then test, thx so far to all!! Smile
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Barf
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice. Just be sure to check the pinout of the new TSOP chip, do not just assume that it is pin-compatible with the old one, but check the data sheet before you plug in the soldering iron.
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ewjmulder



Joined: 09 Sep 2014
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

I have the same scenario as spicemint: I try to control my Motorola VIP1853 with Lirc. So far I have been unable to find the right configuration for the remote. Reading the forum threads it seems it has a 'special' protocol which makes it difficult to control. I was wondering how the struggles above eventually ended. @spicemint: were you able to control your VIP1853 with Lirc? Or maybe with another program? So far I only found a supposedly working slingbox bin file for the VIP1853. Is there a way to convert from a slingbox bin file to a Lirc conf file?

My final goal is to programmatically control my VIP1853 from my windows PC, that is located next to it and has a IguanaIR USB IR dongle. Preferrably through Lirc, but other solutions are also possible.
Any help in this matter is welcome, thanks!

Erik, The Netherlands
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spicemint



Joined: 07 Oct 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject: update Reply with quote

hi Erik, still struggling with it, though after a while I had stopped working on it, as i was extremly annoyed, but like a week ago I had picked it up. there is no way to convert the bin file, but i found out some more stuff. 1st of the remote that comes with that kpn box is transmitting in RF and not in IR, but there are also working IR codes, e.g. my phone (samsung s4 active) has an IR transmitter, with an android app called 'smart remote' i'm able to remote control the vip1853, so my hope was to somehow extract it from there. (also still considering to contact the developer of that app and ask him if s(he) used or can provide the lircd.conf or maybe s(he) is using also some bin stuff...)
As I had mentioned in previous post I had bought this yaUSB receiver and had tried to learn the codes with the irrecord, using the KPN remote, I thought maybe the RF transmissions are not working on that tsop so now I could use my phone to send the signals and try to learn it that way, but it gave me errors:
http://www.vdr-portal.de/index.php?form=Search&types[]=post&userID=14504
thought about getting the IguanaIR USB IR dongle as well, but not sure if would get it working with it, before i spend another 40 bucks on it, btw did u buy it somewhere in NL or from the iguiana site?
BTW why do you want to control it that way? maybe other solutions would work for you.
I want to do it so when I'm away from home and and want to watch tv (I connected one of the vip1853 to my video-in on my server and stream from there), so I can switch stations.
I'd be very interested in case you make some progress, please share!
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Barf
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I browsed through the previous messages, and it strikes me that no-one has really tried to capture the signals using sane capturing hardware (i.e. that can measure modulation frequency). Instead just guessing and "capturing" by hardware that was not intended to "capture" (everything demodulating, i.e. TSOP**, like Iguana). Lirc appears to have been prepared to estimate frequency, however, it was never implemented.

So I suggest getting IrScrutinizer with sane hardware, and trying to capture using that. The list of "sane" hardware supported by IrScrutinizer presently is: Arduino with non-demodulating receiver, e.g. OPL-551, IrWidget, IrToy, GlobalCache Itach(Flex).

If that is not feasible, put the remote in a padded envelope and mail it to me, and I will scrutinize it. Erik, you live in the Netherlands, I live in Germany, so mailing a remote should not cost a fortune. It interested, contact me per PM for my mailing address.
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ewjmulder



Joined: 09 Sep 2014
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@spicemint, @Barf: thanks for replying!

I'm still trying to solve this and I've made some progress since my previous post.
Warning: I am very new to the subject of IR, so I might misunderstand some things.

irrecord
I first tried using irrecord from Lirc (actually, I use WinLirc) but that could not recognize the protocol. Then I tried to use irrecord in raw mode, but that resulted in very irregular and mostly very short codes, which were of no use.

IguanaIR
But the tools supplied with Iguana IR also provided an even more basic 'raw' recording mode: that was just listing the pulse/space microsecond intervals during a certain time period. I used that and recorded pressing key '1' on the remote for about 0,5 - 1 second. Then I replayed that recording (with Iguana tools) and tried to control the VIP1853 with it. It actually worked! I even managed to get it working through Lirc by manually making a raw config file using the data I got from the Iguana encoding. I can share that file later, when I'm back from work. BTW: I did use 56kHz as frequency, 38 kHz does not work.

IR led
Unfortunately it seems to be very sensitive to the position of the IR led, I cannot place it in such a way that it always works, maybe just 20% of the time. I'm not sure if that is because of the IR led position or because of the fact that the recording IR pulse/space interval does not work well on the device. This annoyed me a lot, so I stopped working on it for a little while, will pick it up later. Any experience / tips on this from your side?

Summary
So after all, I'm still interested in getting it to work better. I do not have any non-demodulating receiver hardware, so I do like your offer Barf of sending the remote to you in Germany to see if that can lead to better results and understanding.
@Barf: do you still think the IRScrutinizer can make a difference here? What exactly would you use it for that cannot be achieved with the demodulating receiver hardware? Just finding the right frequency or more?


P.S. Some context
IgauanaIR
I ordered the IguanaIR dongle from their website. It arrived from Florida, US in 1-2 weeks. So far it works fine for me.

IR vs RF
@spicemint: you mention the RC using RF instead of IR. I never heard that before, but I guess it at least uses both, since I am able to pick up some working IR signals from the remote. Also I have a Logitech universal IR remote that works flawlessly with the VIP1853. Reading this: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/remote-control4.htm - section RF extenders maybe clears up the case.

Project
The reason I'd like this to work is because I'm trying to build some kind of 'smart home', where all lights / devices / etc are controlled from 1 central point. I plan to make an Android app where you should be able to choose: watch TV at channel X and it will turn on the TV, Receiver, etc. through the IR leds of the Iguana dongle. But also set the lighting to 'watch TV' mode (dim, warm white). So more like a universal remote for your home then just for your IR devices. Furthermore, my devices are placed in a closed cabinet, so cannot be reached by IR from the couch.
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Barf
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a number of threads here, e.g. this one where people describe why a demodulating decoder is not optimal for capturing unknown IR signals. But just think about it: one such is optimized for information modulated by a certain frequency, e.g. 38kHz, and to suppress everything else.

There has (to my knowledge) never been a driver for LIRC that can measure frequency, or look under the modulation. The Iguana also comes with a 38kHz demodulating sensor only.

If you can post something that actually works, we can analyze it. However, if you get one or a few parameters wrong, chances are that it will still -- somehow -- works, but the reliablity and sensitivity will be suboptimal.

The best thing you can do is to get one of the "supported hardware" mentioned above (the IrToy is probably the last choice), and be able to capture yourself. This eliminates the need to mail remotes. If you get an IrWidget, you can alternatively use the older program IrScope.

For your project, you should have a look at OpenRemote. Also note that an Arduino makes a very versatile and cheap IR sender. Elementary soldering knowledge necessary.
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