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EIB/KNX IR controlled light switch

 
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StefanR



Joined: 07 Feb 2021
Posts: 23
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:55 am    Post subject: EIB/KNX IR controlled light switch Reply with quote

Hi,

i have here a remote control for my EIB/KNX to control a light switch with IR sensor in my living room.

I have successful learned the 8 Key's to my URC-7880, but i must go very close to the light switch to get it working. When i'm more then 1.5 or 2 meters away from the light switch with the IR sensor nothing happens when i press a key.

The original remote isn't much better, i must point to the IR sensor to get it working, but it works even from from 5 meters.

It's hard to find technical data for the light switch or the remote, because it's over 20 years old, what i'm found are only some infos about the remote:

Wavelength: 950 nm
Frequency: 458 kHz

I found the infos here, not exactly the same but nearly: https://cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/260/43103260/att_74691/v1/4257ab21_tpi.pdf

Is the frequency from the remote to high? Because it is shown different on the learned signals page:

{444.4k,25,lsb}<1,-5200u|1,-7810u>(A:12,1,-53m)*{A=0x1ed}

I was surprised that the URC had learned something, because i tryed this already in the past years with different remotes like a Philips Pronto SBC RU890 (manny years ago) or a Logitech Harmony, if i remember right they noticed nothing to learn....

So i can imagine that they are doing here something special that i can't really use my URC to replace that remote...

Perhaps someone has a hint for me.

Kind regards
Stefan
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 20377
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would need to see your RMIR file with the learned signals in it in order to even guess.
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Rob
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StefanR



Joined: 07 Feb 2021
Posts: 23
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here it is: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26230

Thanks for watching....
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 20377
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a simple enough protocol, but it has a really high frequency of 444kHz (where 38kHz is more common). The signal itself is 12 bits, as follows:

2-bit simple checksum
7-bit fixed
3-bit variable (OBC)

0 = +25 -5200
1 = +25 -7800
leadout = +25 -135000 (off as total)

1 = 101101111000
2 = 111101111001
3 = 001101111010
4 = 011101111011
5 = 101101111100
6 = 111101111101
7 = 001101111110
8 = 011101111111

I will cook up a simple executor to replicate this later and then you can test it to see if it has any better range than the original. Unfortunately, my hunch is that the short range is a feature of the protocol itself, especially as you say the original remote works that way too.
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Rob
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StefanR



Joined: 07 Feb 2021
Posts: 23
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't test the original with more then 5 meters, my room isn't bigger. But all other devices will receive their IR signals even when i don't point on it, but at this light switch i must point the original remote to the receiver.

Thank you, but only when it makes no circumstances, this isn't important.

I'm thinking already to search for a different switch with a IR receiver, but the problem, in most datasheets there are no details about the IR.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 20377
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have written an S3C8 executor for this, but your remote requires a TI executor and I don't know how to write those.

In case someone else wants to jump who does know how to write one, here's how I decided to handle the data. It has 12 bits where the first 2 bits are a checksum, the next 7 bits are fixed and the last 3 bits are the OBC in MSB format. I decided to split into three 4-bit chunks where the first 4 bits and the last 4 bits are supplied via a single variable byte. My executor has 2 fixed bytes and 1 variable byte (4-bits each remember). The first fixed byte doesn't need to be supplied as it will get overwritten, the second fixed byte should be populated with the middle 4-bits of the signal and the variable byte should have the last 4-bits followed by the first 4-bits.

The executor code will copy the variable byte to the first fixed byte and swap it, that's the only custom logic needed.

Just FYI, regarding the checksum, it's really simple, the first bit is the complement of the middle OBC bit, and the second bit is a copy of the LSB of the OBC. I didn't bother to calculate the checksum in the executor code as it was easier to just pass it in a hex data, so if we decide to implement this in protocols.ini we'll need to calculate it there.

The following zip file has the PB, KM and RM files that I used for this:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26231

In testing, I got the timing and binary results that I expected, but my captures didn't show a carrier frequency, which I assume is because 444k is too high for my URC-8820 to capture.
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3FG
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Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 3323

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a TI executor which should shoot 455kHz. The next lower frequency is 434kHz, so we can't hit 444 as suggested by the learns. However, I suspect the expected frequency is 455kHz, because that a standard filter frequency in AM receivers. B&O IR signals use 455.

Add the following entry to protocols.ini:
Code:
[Berkin]
PID=02 FF
DevParms=Device:7=111
DeviceTranslator=Translator(0,7,0,0)
CmdParms=OBC:3=0
CmdTranslator=Translator(comp,0,1,0,1) Translator(0,1,1,0) Translator(0,3,8,0)
FixedData=2F
DefaultCmd=00 00
Code.TI2541=01 16 00 32 12 0A 0C 00 DE 0D 0C 00 3B 09 1A 5E 00 00 42 14 03 11 60  22


The OBCs run from 0 to 7. Device is 111
RMDU file: http://hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=26232

Rob,
I set this up in a way that was convenient for me, so there is one fixed byte and 2 variable bytes.
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StefanR



Joined: 07 Feb 2021
Posts: 23
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for your help, but i'm sorry, the key's have no function.

When i'm, after 20 years of using this remote, are the first person who want's to learn this, then i think it makes no sense to spend here much time in this. Because there are no other people they will help this...

I searched and found a IR Sensor for KNX wich uses the RC-5 code on chanel 29 and 30. so perhaps i can create a dvice without buying the original remote to learn from.

https://www.busch-jaeger.de/files/files_ONLINE/2CKA001473B8667_Pr%C3%A4senzmelder_6131_03_BJE_EN.pdf Page 62.

I think i will try this one...
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mathdon
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 3881
Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have loaded StefanR's .rmir file and 3FG's .rmdu file into my URC-7880 and looked at the signals they send with a Widget and IRScope. This combination cannot read a frequency as high as 455kHz but otherwise it does give an analysis of the signal in IRP form and as far as I can tell, 3FG's signals are as close to the learned ones as it is possible to create with a protocol for a TI processor. I have also looked at 3FG's code with RMPB, which shows that the frequency is 454.5kHz with a 50% duty cycle.

The only difference is that although 3FG has created 8 functions, only 7 are assigned to buttons. So only buttons 1-7 send his signals and those correspond to the learned signals on buttons 2-8, so there is an offset of 1. When you import his .rmdu file into RMIR it actually creates signals on all 10 digit buttons, but those on buttons 8, 9 and 0 are spurious. If the signals on his buttons 2-8 do not operate the functions of learned signals on 1-7 then this is probably the end of the road. I can't see any viable tweaking, based on the knowledge we have, that might improve the situation.
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StefanR



Joined: 07 Feb 2021
Posts: 23
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today i got the KNX presence detector which has a IR receiver included. In the manual i linked above i can read that the IR receiver uses RC-5 codes, so i tryed to create a new device in RMIR to send IR signals to the presence detector with the in the manual described values.

It works instantly, no problems! Very Happy

Havn't expected that this works in the first try...

Wonderful software!
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