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Wiki - breaking out items into their own articles

 
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eferz
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Wiki - breaking out items into their own articles Reply with quote

This conversation split from the LG Hack thread:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12079

Incidentally, the different sections of the Manual Programming - 9xx Commands Wiki page have been punched out into their own articles. Now we can post links directly to an article of a particular function for focus, like Program Effective Function Code (EFC) for a single device. The individual articles were linked back to the main document to keep the single page reference which many have been accustomed.
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Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eferz wrote:
Incidentally, the different sections of the Manual Programming - 9xx Commands Wiki page have been punched out into their own articles. Now we can post links directly to an article of a particular function for focus, like url=http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.php?title=Program_Effective_Function_Code_%28EFC%29_for_a_single_device]Program Effective Function Code (EFC) for a single device[/url]. The individual articles were linked back to the main document to keep the single page reference which many have been accustomed.

Actually I find the breakout to add more places that need to be corrected and watched. You could just go to the anchor for the 994 on the combined article. That makes it easier to find, and easier to keep track of. Like this keymover

I would find having the 994 command segmented to be confusing and all the back and forth to see how the 9xx commands work hides stuff that the grouped 9xx commands bring to the forefront.
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eferz
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
Actually I find the breakout to add more places that need to be corrected and watched.

I would find having the 994 command segmented to be confusing and all the back and forth to see how the 9xx commands work hides stuff that the grouped 9xx commands bring to the forefront.

It is actually the same "pieces"; I call them, "article fragments". If you edit the main article using the tab at the top, you'll find the individual sections are all template links to the separate articles. This allows the main article to propagate the data from the different fragments. Editing any of the separate sections from the main article immediately edits the individual article fragments. To the person editing them there's no more or less places to edit. However to person reading or linking, it empowers them with more options for consumption.

The nice thing about this implementation is that you can share fragment links to other articles. That way if you edit a core fragment, the changes will immediately reflect to the other linked articles. This can be especially helpful in writing task-orientated tutorials. It gives other authors the ability to include information already published elsewhere in the wiki.

Additionally, this augments the search capabilities of the Wiki. If someone performs a search for "994" then they are immediately taken to the respective 994 article. From there they can link back to the main article or use the index to browse the related articles as they see fit. This gives the reader more options in how the information is presented and for some it increases content digestibility.

vickyg2003 wrote:
You could just go to the anchor for the 994 on the combined article. That makes it easier to find, and easier to keep track of. keymover

I did that quite a few times in this thread; however, iseek still insisted it was "too much information". From the perspective of a newbie, I can empathize that too much text all at once can be overwhelming. To address the issue of information overload, I thought it was better to reorganize the article to provide more consumable options.
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Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for some reason I am not following how the pieces thing goes back to the main article.

I'll give it a closer look.

I totally loose my train of thought when I change screens.

For me, my attenion span just isn't good enough to use the fragmented form. And then the fragmented form doesn't have enough information to be useful. Instead of giving the user a good overview, we are hiding a lot of the power of the 994 command.
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eferz
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
for some reason I am not following how the pieces thing goes back to the main article.

I'll give it a closer look.

That's okay, I think that we're a lot a like in this regards. Certain things just don't "click" until you're able to have it represented visually or see it in action. But, I'm sure if you go back into the main article and click on the "edit" tab at the very top and then the individual sections then it'll all come together for you.

vickyg2003 wrote:
I totally loose my train of thought when I change screens.

For me, my attenion span just isn't good enough to use the fragmented form. And then the fragmented form doesn't have enough information to be useful. Instead of giving the user a good overview, we are hiding a lot of the power of the 994 command.

This is just one of those different strokes/folks sort of thing. There's no single solution for everyone. As Rob told me offline, "he just wants to hack his TV and move on", so he's probably not interested in becoming a JP1 expert and might not care about the full power of the available commands.

I mean if you look back at the chain of replies, I referenced the 9xx command article over five times. Despite my repeated attempts to reiterate the information present in that article, he still did not acknowledge its contents and it took both you and 3FG to correct him. He even admitted that he was overwhelmed with the amount of information within it. And, I believe if there's one vocal person whom feels this way then there are many more who won't say anything and just move on.

By reorganizing the documentation in this manner, we are able to service different mindsets. At least, with the article fragments there's a possibility to entice a more task-orientated person, like iseek, to explore more of what JP1 has to offer. Originally his response was more along the lines of the typical "Too long; didn't read" response also commonly referred as the "TL;DR" meme. Now we can offer people like him a more concise view which gives him the option to explore more at their own pace.

If I'm going to draw an analogy, think about going to a restaurant with a partner or a group. You order your food, have this wonderful meal, and at the end the waiter asks if anyone wants dessert. Well, you're stuffed and can't possible entertain the idea of eating anything else, so you pass. However, others don't and they get their dessert and offer you a "taste" and you give it a try but then you end up eating more than that. Maybe even share half of it, if not selfishly gobble up the entire dish. Leaving your partner to quietly fume and ponder why didn't you just order you own.
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Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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underquark
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of the psychology behind the sharing, or not, of ones meal is summarized in this video.
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have much comment on the "separated" issue. From my point of view, I've "always" been able to post links to specific sections of the 994 instructions, and it looks like it is still possible.

However, I'd like to address one of eferz' apparent motivations for making a change: that it will help a user like iseek. No, it won't. I did go to the trouble of reading the entire discussion, and as as far as I can see, the only Wiki entry that would have helped would have the following in one short article:
1) Why a Harmony is a poor choice for the hack.
2) Don't even consider using a defective remote for the hack.
3) Instructions specific to a Comcast grey button remote (4 digit setup codes rather than 5), and making clear that the important button is labeled Setup, as distinct from Magic, or Set or P).
4) Instructions which include an entirely unnecessary remapping of the AUX button to TV mode. Note that perhaps 90% of Comcast remotes are red button remotes and their 5 digit setup codes means this kind of remapping is done differently to gray button remotes. Also note that the great majority of people doing the hack will subsequently use the same remote to control their TV (one reason why we should be specifying 0178 rather than 0030; another is that 0178 is resident in more remotes.)

It seems that item 2 is a legitimate issue with referring folks like iseek to instructions. UEI remotes have 3 or 5 digit EFCs, and 3, 4 or 5 digit setup codes. Many have cable lock and other punchthrough capabilities, which if set differently from anticipated in the instructions, can make the hack "not work". If we want to help iseek's cousins, I think we would need a Wiki entry specific to the LG hack, with separate discriptions for at least 4 versus 5 digit setup codes, and for 3 versus 5 digit EFCs. And the insructions need to include how to undo the EFC assignments. I personally wouldn't want to take the trouble to write all that up.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

underquark wrote:
Part of the psychology behind the sharing, or not, of ones meal is summarized in this video.


haha

3fg wrote:
However, I'd like to address one of eferz' apparent motivations for making a change: that it will help a user like iseek. No, it won't.


I must agree. I can't BELIEVE he insisted on doing a 992 to the AUX button. Made absolutely no sense to me. He had a plan and would not be deterred.

I know that I was probably worse than iseek with my first venture into jp1-land. I had EVERYTHING wrong, really EVERYTHING! But I think that finding the information in one place verses 2 places is more helpful to the vast majority of users. If I was reading the thread, and sent to a small section of the 994 command, I really doubt that I would have been able to find my way back to overview. Understanding the various 994 structures was key.


eferz - I see that this IS being rolled up ( I tested it to see how that it is the same everywhere which is really cool) , but still don't understand the mechanism involved to get this to get this to happen. Can you send me to 'wiki school'. Where DID you find out how to do that.
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eferz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
I must agree. I can't BELIEVE he insisted on doing a 992 to the AUX button. Made absolutely no sense to me. He had a plan and would not be deterred.

It made sense after he explained it though. He's wanted to keep his current TV configuration separate on his Comcast remote. That's why he was pursuing programming AUX for the LG TV. Besides, the Comcast remote was merely a backup to his Logitech Harmony anyways.

If he already had the LG TV there, he probably wouldn't have ever posted here. Because he would have realized he didn't need to use the Comcast remote at all. He could have used any LG TV profile which had the EZ-Setup codes, like the "LG 47LE5300-UC" profile. Most of the different model LG profiles use the same common commands anyways. So, the only difference are which commands are available. The only reason why it isn't available in the model of his actual TV is because the some commands in the Harmony Database are obtained through crowed sourcing and will only appear if enough people record the command and name it consistently.

vickyg2003 wrote:
eferz - I see that this IS being rolled up ( I tested it to see how that it is the same everywhere which is really cool) , but still don't understand the mechanism involved to get this to get this to happen. Can you send me to 'wiki school'. Where DID you find out how to do that.

The idea was gathered from other more mature wiki projects which I've been a contributor. However, Rob uses MediaWiki to serve up the pages, so its documentation can be read here, "http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki". The particular feature being used is a template, hence the use of the curly brackets around the article name. For example, {{:994} references the 994 article fragment. The colon prior to the article name is to signify its a part of the default name space. Anything within the article will be displayed using that link except for anything which is encapsulated in <noinclude></noinclude> tags. That's how I was able to prevent the header and footer of each page from being duplicated many times throughout the main article.

If you want to see another way this can be used to your advantage then take a look at the ReplayTV article. You'll see the "How to use RIDgen" section below which is a short and summarized view. However, if you click into the linked section header, the same instructions are they but with a more elaborate explanation with screenshots and examples.

The thing about Wiki pages is that it is quite different from writing monolithic instructions. You have a database behind it which can contain many types of data, so it can be used to your advantage to alleviate the need to retype something already published elsewhere. Besides, the internet generation is looking for instant gratification. They want quick answers, so you have about 2-3 seconds to provide them with enough substantial information without scaring them off with "huge blocks of text". There's a certain tact and style to writing good Wiki's to keep the different types of audience entertained enough to look for more on their own.
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Remotes; JP1.2: Comcast URC-1067, JP1.3: Insignia NS-RC02U-10A, JP1.4 OARI06G, JP2.1: Cox URC-8820-MOTO (still trying to figure out how to make them self-aware.)
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