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unclemiltie Expert
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1795 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 11:24 pm Post subject: DishPVR 721 questions |
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There's a DishPVR upgrade in the files section that says that it needs two devices for device 1:0 and 1:1, what does that mean?
I also found in learning the PVR remote that there are two device ID's for the vast majority of the keys and also one key that has a different protocol
What I see:
1: a bunch of keys with Dishplayer (old) protocol and device ID 0
2: a bunch of keys with Dishplayer (old) protocol and device ID 16
3: one key with JVC-A protocol and device ID 255
I've relearned the different keys and have validated that I didn't mess something up. I'm using IR 4.01
So, how does one build an upgrade for a device that has two protcols and one of the protocols uses two device ID's?
thanks |
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gjarboni Expert
Joined: 20 Sep 2003 Posts: 294 Location: Columbia, MD |
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:40 am Post subject: Re: DishPVR 721 questions |
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unclemiltie wrote: | There's a DishPVR upgrade in the files section that says that it needs two devices for device 1:0 and 1:1, what does that mean? |
That means that this upgrade uses the device combiner.
unclemiltie wrote: |
I also found in learning the PVR remote that there are two device ID's for the vast majority of the keys and also one key that has a different protocol
What I see:
1: a bunch of keys with Dishplayer (old) protocol and device ID 0
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Without looking at the Dish PVR device, I'd guess that this is 1:0
unclemiltie wrote: |
2: a bunch of keys with Dishplayer (old) protocol and device ID 16
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And this is device 1:1
unclemiltie wrote: |
3: one key with JVC-A protocol and device ID 255
I've relearned the different keys and have validated that I didn't mess something up. I'm using IR 4.01
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This is either a mis-learn or a misdecode. Before we had Decodeir.dll all Dish signals were interpreted as JVC-A (255-Dish_Address). John Fine wrote decodeir.dll -- this does the extremely hard job of decoding IR signals. I mention this because he might be interested in looking at your IR file (to see why DecodeIR.dll is getting that one key wrong). So before clearing out those learns, save it please.
unclemiltie wrote: |
So, how does one build an upgrade for a device that has two protcols and one of the protocols uses two device ID's?
thanks |
Using the device combiner. It looks like the DishPVR upgrade is already set up to do this. Have you tried using it as is? What happens? That upgrade already has all the hard work done, so you can use it and modify it as you understand the device combiner more. |
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unclemiltie Expert
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1795 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:51 am Post subject: 721 learn uploaded to diagnostics area |
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I re-learned this morning and still got the JVC protocol. I uploaded a subset of the keys on the 721 remote to the diagnostics area for you guys to look at. The JVC protocol is still in there. Filename is PVR721-test
As for the file for the 721 in the files area, it doesn't have all of the keys (some of which I want to use) so I'm trying to figure out what to do with it. I've never done a device combiner, where can I get help on that?
Thanks again |
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unclemiltie Expert
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1795 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:15 pm Post subject: more experimenting... |
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The DishPVR 721 upgrade in the files section doesn't appear to use the combiner, it has the dishplayer (old) as the protocol and says that the keys that are at ID 16 have to be done in IR with keymoves. It also doesn't do all of them and all of the ones that I want will take a good bit of memory.
So, off I go to build a combiner upgrade. I've never done this before, so bear with me. I've got a couple of questions after reading the documentation:
1: there appears to be no way to set the device ID's in the combiner protocol. The Dish Boxes have a way to set up their device ID to allow you to use the UHF remote next to your neighbor who might have one as well (and to allow you to use more than one in a house) and I DO use that feature. I also have a Dish 508. I guess I could keep this one at ID 0, but is there a way to set the device ID in KM?
2: there's a section in the KM docs about "duration control" What is this and why would I want to use it? How would I figure out if I needed it?
You guys are amazingly helpful.
Thanks |
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unclemiltie Expert
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1795 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject: more strangeness? |
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OK, on a whim I decided to change the remote ID and re-learn the codes from the original remote. I found something odd and don't understand it
With the remote set at ID 1:
Button 1: Device=0, Sub-Device=0, EFC = 146
Button PIP: Device=16, Sub-Device=0, EFC = 077
With the remote set at ID 6:
Button 1: Device=0, Sub-Device=5, EFC = 162
Button PIP: Device=16, Sub-Device=5, EFC = 093
OK, so the Device part is what sets these code sets apart, I get that.
The Sub-Device is the ID shown on the Sat info screen - 1, I get that
Why on earth would the EFC's change?
The EFC's with the ID set to 1 match up with the EFC's in the 721 upgrade on Yahoo files by the way.
label me REALLY CONFUSED! |
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jon_armstrong Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 1238 Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005 |
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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What OFA remote are you using? _________________ -Jon |
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unclemiltie Expert
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1795 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'm using an RCU810. I have a 15-2117 as well but haven't used that for a while to do the learning. The RCA is sort of my experimental/spare remote that I play with. |
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jon_armstrong Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 1238 Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005 |
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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The reason is due to EFC's always being 8-bits and in this case the OBC is only 6-bits. In some versions of the remote ID's 1 through 4 can be set with the spare two bits. If you take the OBC and multiply by four and add 0 for ID 1, 2 for ID2 (or ID 6), 1 for ID 3, 3 for ID 4. Take that number and enter it into the IR "EFC calculator" as OBC in MSB box then you will get the same EFC as the decoder calculated.
As far as some commands using device 0 and others using device 16, that is the way Dish set it up.
I just looked at KM Master 8.12 and it does not calculate the OBC to EFC or EFC to OBC correctly. For the default ID, it does calculate the correct hex, given the right EFC _________________ -Jon |
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forestial
Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Posts: 17
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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:47 am Post subject: Re: more experimenting... |
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unclemiltie wrote: | ...
2: there's a section in the KM docs about "duration control" What is this and why would I want to use it? How would I figure out if I needed it?
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This is a feature of the device combiner that allows you to specify that a command should be repeated a certain number of times.
You might need this if you have a component that tends to miss commands from the remote: by repeating them you increase the chances that one of the commands will 'get through'.
Sometimes a component may work fine when you press a button manually, because in fact the remote is repeating the command as long as you hold the button down. But if you put the same command into a macro, by default it is sent only once and may not get through. To solve this you can use the device combiner to say that a command should be repeated a few times, and then use this in the macro. |
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unclemiltie Expert
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1795 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:52 am Post subject: so, I'm even more confused now..... |
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OK, So I learn a whole bunch of codes from the remote with the SatID set to 1 (Device=0, Sub-device =0 in IR) IR Gives them to me in OBC, Hex and EFC. All with the Dishplayer(old) protocol, some with dev=0, some with dev=16 (remember, the sub-dev is used for the SatID)
Next I want tobuild a combined device with the KM device combiner:
Question 1: Which data do I use to enter the button codes? EFC,OBC or Hex? (since jon mentioned that they're not being calculated correctly in KM) Which is more reliable?
Question 2: Can I have a different ID than SatID1? If so, where do I enter the sub-device in the combiner?
Question 3: The protocol section in the combiner leaves room for me to put in the protocols (in this case 00 02) but where do I put the deviceid of 0 or 16?
Question 4: In the combiner, the second byte is nX where n is the protocol number (0 or 1 in my case) and x is optional and assumed zero? So for the second byte when the protocol is 1 do I use 1 or 10? (I'm thinking in Hex right now)
Question 5: There are 13 functions that have the ID=16, the rest are ID=0. Am I better off doing these as key moves in IR and forgetting about the combiner? (although I would like to learn and make this work)
I've posted my first crack at this in the diagnostic section labeled PVR721-combiner.txt if you want to see what I've done. IT DOES NOT WORK, but has all of the button codes in there that I found (entered as EFC's from IR)
htanks in advance for any help in my learning this. |
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johnsfine Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4766 Location: Bedford, MA |
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: so, I'm even more confused now..... |
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unclemiltie wrote: |
Next I want tobuild a combined device with the KM device combiner:
Question 1: Which data do I use to enter the button codes? EFC,OBC or Hex? (since jon mentioned that they're not being calculated correctly in KM) Which is more reliable? |
You cannot use OBC with the device combiner and there is no advantage to using hex rather than EFC. I saw Jon's post about the wrong EFC calculation and didn't understand it, so I don't know if it's relevent to your use of the device combiner. If the EFC numbers you have are wrong, you need to get right EFC numbers from somewhere.
unclemiltie wrote: |
Question 2: Can I have a different ID than SatID1? If so, where do I enter the sub-device in the combiner?
Question 3: The protocol section in the combiner leaves room for me to put in the protocols (in this case 00 02) but where do I put the deviceid of 0 or 16? |
Both those questions indicate you're missing a key step in use of the device combiner. You need to enter something called "fixed data" for each "device" being combined.
Usually the way to get that fixed data (and the protocol ID) is to start to create an upgrade in KM for the individual "device", giving the protocol name and any device number, subdevice number, and other parameters that KM needs for that protocol.
Then you record the protocol ID and fixed data that KM displays.
Then you do the same thing for the next "device".
Once you have all the different sets of protocol ID and fixed data you need, then you create the device combiner upgrade. It sound like you want to combine only the Dishplayer_Old protocol, so the protocol ID will be the same for each, but the fixed data will be different.
unclemiltie wrote: |
Question 4: In the combiner, the second byte is nX where n is the protocol number (0 or 1 in my case) and x is optional and assumed zero? So for the second byte when the protocol is 1 do I use 1 or 10? (I'm thinking in Hex right now) |
You use 1, (not 10) to select the second set of fixed data.
unclemiltie wrote: |
Question 5: There are 13 functions that have the ID=16, the rest are ID=0. Am I better off doing these as key moves in IR and forgetting about the combiner? |
I assume by "the rest" you mean a significant number. I don't think using 13 keymoves to avoid a device combiner is a good trade off. |
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unclemiltie Expert
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1795 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:23 pm Post subject: Aha! |
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Thanks, I was missing something.
The instructions for doing a device combiner aren't all that clear, I read them a couple of times.
I'll give this a try tonight to see if this works! |
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unclemiltie Expert
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1795 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:23 pm Post subject: still no work.... |
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OK, went to KM, built an upgrade (or some part of it) for each "device" using the dishplayer protocol, device=0/16, sub-device-6
copied the protocol and fixed data into the combiner upgrade
still doesn't work
I've uploaded the upgrade to the diagnostics area
fileis named UPG-DISHPVR721-combiner-ID6-RCU810
(this is how I'm keeping all of my experimental upgrades that work in various amounts separate)
any help appreciated.
thanks again guys |
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Mark Pierson Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 3017 Location: Connecticut, USA |
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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I took a quick look at your file. Assuming the PID/Fixed Data entered in the Device Combiner table is correct, and the actual EFC's entered for all the functions are correct, I don't see any obvious problem.
Do you having working upgrades for each of the devices you used to create the combiner? If so, are you sure that the data entered in the Device Combiner matches that in the individual upgrades?
When you uploaded the DC upgrade and protocol code to IR, did you remove the individual upgrades that were already in there (if they were)? Is the proper device button set to the appropriate device type/setup code on the General tab in IR? _________________ Mark |
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johnsfine Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 4766 Location: Bedford, MA |
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Mark Pierson wrote: | I took a quick look at your file. Assuming the PID/Fixed Data entered in the Device Combiner table is correct, |
It isn't.
I also took a quick look. I don't have time right now to figure out what the correct fixed data would be, but it's clear that fixed data is wrong. |
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