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To buy or not to buy
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: To buy or not to buy Reply with quote

Well I went through the Comcast Digital Conversion, and now I'm going through the WOW Digital Conversion and am quite amazed at the difference.

Comcast in FL passes through all the local channels including the HD channels but to get any of the cable stations (TBS, TNT, USA, FX, ESPN) you need to use the set top box.

WOW ends all the basic cable channels in clear qam. So if you have new TV's you don't have to use the set top boxes. Wow doesn't carry the complete PBS lineup I can only get PBS and PBS Create with my TV that is hooked to the attic antenna. When the conversion is complete in August only some of the local channels will be available in analog via cable.

So now here I am with 8 TV's from the last century. It costs $2 a month for each set-top-box tuner.

I have 3 of the ATSC tuner boxes that I can hook up to the OTA antenna and have a lot more content including 2 of my favorite channels (PBSHD and PBS Create) than if I just took the analog that is being passed through from the cable.

This is so confusing!

To have basic cable, it will cost me $24 per year per tv, or I can buy new TV's and hope they last for the payback period, which is about 10 years on small TVs, about 20 for a good size TV. I'm under the impression that these TV's just will never last that long.

I'd love my to trash my rear-projection TV, but that thing was resoldered under warranty and doesn't show any signs of giving up the ghost. Beautiful picture, but the unit itself is an eyesore.

So what are you guys doing for the digital revolution? Buying new TVs, renting boxes, boycotting cable and going for OTA?
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Last edited by vickyg2003 on Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cable in my area stinks, and I'm a HD picture quality snob, so I have satellite and OTA. One really nice thing about this combo is the OTA is integrated into the sat box, so you get full guide data and can record them just like any other channel.

Unfortunately, that's much more expensive than basic cable plus $2 per TV. That is unless you never watch all those TVs at the same time. In cases where you can share the same picture on a couple of TVs, you can distribute the signal from one sat box to them all and use RF remotes for control, effectively sharing sat and OTA among them all. I only have 4 TVs in my house which share 2 sat DVRs, both with OTA.

I've thought hard about ditching pay TV altogether as many have done and rely on netflix, hulu, and other streaming services. But there's still some content you can't get online.

As for the TVs themselves, I keep watching them until they die of natural causes.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
Cable in my area stinks, and I'm a HD picture quality snob, so I have satellite and OTA

Yes we had that combo when we lived in Chicago. The picture quality was so good, and when the digital conversion came in we had 25 ota channels with all sorts of content. Cable picture sucks, even when its digital. OTA is so much clearer.

Quote:

Unfortunately, that's much more expensive than basic cable plus $2 per TV. That is unless you never watch all those TVs at the same time. In cases where you can share the same picture on a couple of TVs, you can distribute the signal from one sat box to them all and use RF remotes for control, effectively sharing sat and OTA among them all. I only have 4 TVs in my house which share 2 sat DVRs, both with OTA.


Yes, we only ever watch 3 at one time. But when the TV's are on we hardly ever watch the same things.

Quote:

As for the TVs themselves, I keep watching them until they die of natural causes.


Yes but they never seem to die. Some are from the 70's! I don't think the new tv's with the lead-free solder are going to last that long!
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any new flat-screen plasma TV should last you at least 5 years, maybe even 10 if you look after it! Smile
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zaphod7501



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Any new flat-screen plasma TV should last you at least 5 years, maybe even 10 if you look after it! Smile

I wouldn't count on 10 myself; but Plasma is probably the best bang for the buck right now. Just remember they are fragile and most failures are catastrophic -- and they can get burn-in -- so calibrate correctly. (and keep the Wii away from it.)
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if we go with 7 years, a new TV would have to be $168 to breakeven for the cost of a converter rental. However cheap HD TV's tend to make me feel ill with the choppy motion.

I had been researching QAM Standalone tuners and found them to be very expensive, well over 100, but this morning I stumbled onto the iView-2000STB that can be had for ~48. This would have a payback period of 2 years, as long as my cable company continues to broadcast basic cable in clear QAM.

I wonder what would be the best/cheapest most feature rich stb. I wonder how come my searches have been so bad at turning up these boxes.

When I bought my OTA stb, I got those great boxes with all the features.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought the iView and the upgrade is now in the file section. I was surprised that I could get the local hd channels with the new box. It offers a lot more channels than the cable supplied dta box.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I'm doing all sorts of things to accomodate this new setup, but I'm having so much trouble with my time shifting that I'm thinking of doing something REALLY radical.

I have two analog Sony DVD recorders, and I've been setting up the recordings, but the new DTA's don't have an ability to pretune in a channel, so 4 out of the last 6 recordings have captured the wrong channel.

I really need a DVR, but that would send my cable bill out of site!
Has anyone here had any experience with mythtv?
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zaphod7501



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not used MythTV but most of those (MythTV, GBPVR, SageTV, etc) rely on some type of adapter (USB UIRT) to send an IR signal to control the cable boxes. (or Satellite receivers) They obviously require a tuner card/adapter on the PC and rely on a subscription ($) to a guide service for programming. Manual recording is not well supported. Personally I have a mix of cable (encrypted), cable (clear QAM), OTA (local), OTA (distant) and a guide will not work.

There are a number of options which could require a moderately difficult initial setup but provide a usable recording method.

Do your Sony DVD recorders offer "cable box control"? Many VCRs offer that feature. The cable DTAs will respond to a lot of IR codes.

There used to be JP1 remotes with internal timers (URC8800) that could send channel change commands at specific times. I don't think there are any currently around.

One method is to create a custom antenna system using filters and modulators. My coax feed to recorders contains the analog cable channels (2-22), a DTA converted to analog RF channel 90, and a cable box converted to RF channel 125. Additional channels can be created with more adapters and modulators. A single recorder can have the following timer tuning options (in my case)
1: Any RF analog channel (2-22)
2: An OTA converter box on line1 input
3: Channel 90 (DTA preset to desired station)
4: Channel 125 (DTA #2 preset to desired channel)
5: A Cable STB on line2 input
I have a little grid chart on the PC telling me where to preset each box each day. (my system is actually a bit more complicated than that with 5 PC tuners, an old RCA hard drive DVR, and a Coolsat tuner/DVR)

Something I have not done, but contemplated, is using a DVD/VCR recorder as a programmable channel changer taking advantage of the cable box control feature and taking the video output to feed a different recorder. Stick an 8 hour VHS cassette in it to set up the timers. (rewind the tape periodically)
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaphod7501 wrote:
I have not used MythTV but most of those (MythTV, GBPVR, SageTV, etc) rely on some type of adapter (USB UIRT) to send an IR signal to control the cable boxes. (or Satellite receivers) They obviously require a tuner card/adapter on the PC and rely on a subscription ($) to a guide service for programming. Manual recording is not well supported. Personally I have a mix of cable (encrypted), cable (clear QAM), OTA (local), OTA (distant) and a guide will not work.

hmm, I didn't realize manual programming was not well supported. The idea of having a DVR is more and more appealing. Just for watching live TV. The DH talks through all the dialog on my shows, and can't hear so is constantly asking what they just said on his shows. I should probably just run closed captioning 100% of the time. Laughing

Quote:

There are a number of options which could require a moderately difficult initial setup but provide a usable recording method.

Do your Sony DVD recorders offer "cable box control"? Many VCRs offer that feature. The cable DTAs will respond to a lot of IR codes.

nope

Quote:

There used to be JP1 remotes with internal timers (URC8800) that could send channel change commands at specific times. I don't think there are any currently around.

Hmm, I have an 8800 around here somewhere. I got it so I would have all the processors covered, never expected to use it. I'm not even sure that protocols for my devices have been written. I

Quote:

One method is to create a custom antenna system using filters and modulators.



Well once I have two coaxes available I can handle the local channels with my echostar box. That box has a timer so I can change the channel and has a guide so that I can know whats on, AND has line inputs so need to use a filter.

My cable company sends basic cable out in clear qam, so that's where the problem is. I bought a Qam decoder for that TV, and it has line output too.

DVD recorder has line1, line2 and RF input. It will not put out line input as RF, but I can send this to the TV as line output.

I have an old 2k machine that I was thinking about turning into a Myth, but I also have 2 identical ancient laptops running puppy. I keep these near the TV's because my cable doesn't have a TV GUIDE, my newspaper no longer publishes the TV guide, and since we are not hear 75% of the time I really don't want to pay for the cable company magazine.

Quote:

I have a little grid chart on the PC telling me where to preset each box each day. (my system is actually a bit more complicated than that with 5 PC tuners, an old RCA hard drive DVR, and a Coolsat tuner/DVR)

Something I have not done, but contemplated, is using a DVD/VCR recorder as a programmable channel changer taking advantage of the cable box control feature and taking the video output to feed a different recorder. Stick an 8 hour VHS cassette in it to set up the timers. (rewind the tape periodically)


My problem is since I moved out of Illinois, everything is on so LATE! I loved the central timezone! Now that I'm in the eastern timezone I fall asleep trying to make it up till the good stuff comes on.

If I program the DVD recorder to capture channel 3 at 10 pm, someone always comes in and checks sports center between I fall asleep and when it starts.

I'm thinking more of an app that uses LIRC on the ancient laptops. But now that I'm thinking about this, perhaps another coax feed or a splitter and a secondary DTA box, that nobody but me can control might make this a workable solution.

Hmmm,
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zaphod7501



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
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Location: Peoria Illinois

                    
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At my shop, (TV/Electronic repair) I have kind of given up trying to help people figure out how to record using all of the external boxes (OTA, Cable, Sat, Clear QAM tuners, etc) and generally suggest that the only practical method for the "average" user is to rent the DVR that comes from the service provider.

Customers who rely on an antenna only are the most annoyed since they have few options but to buy a new device ($200 - $400) if they want something that will be easy to use and program recordings. Most of these are older people who refused to even learn how to use a cable box.

I sometimes have to record cable programs on their Left Coast repeat showings due to conflicts. The Tour De France is going to play havoc with schedules in a few weeks since one of the boxes is going to be locked on "Versus" to accommodate daily shifting times.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaphod7501 wrote:
At my shop, (TV/Electronic repair) I have kind of given up trying to help people figure out how to record using all of the external boxes (OTA, Cable, Sat, Clear QAM tuners, etc) and generally suggest that the only practical method for the "average" user is to rent the DVR that comes from the service provider.

Yes, I think its about as difficult as trying to explain how to get the most out of a JP1 extender. Laughing I think that your talk with me just helped tremenously though. Imagine I take the cable supplied DTA1 box and run it to the TV, take the purchased DTA 2run that through the DVD. In the DVD recorder. Channels on DVD go to DTA2 channels on TV go to DTA1, we now get back to having PIP for my husbands sports, I can record one show while watching another, without having to trudge down to the basement to the second DVD. I think I'm back to pre digital conversion!

Quote:

Customers who rely on an antenna only are the most annoyed since they have few options but to buy a new device ($200 - $400) if they want something that will be easy to use and program recordings. Most of these are older people who refused to even learn how to use a cable box.


You don't even want to get me started there. I'm surrounded by technophobes. Heck I live with technophobes.

I totally understand people not wanting to spend more money on TV. This has gotten absolutely ridiculous. I don't watch that much TV.

I here there is a Magnavox 500G hdd/DVR with an ATSC/QAM tuner and that is selling for about 200.

Maybe that's how I should. I do LOVE my DVD player, but the idea of rewinding live TV is still extremely appealing.

I'm also wondering about all this dongle stuff I've been doing for people with pc's. I'm wondering if I could take my little laptop and hook it to the pc connector on my TV and do the internet cable guide with the remote.
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zaphod7501



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The general rule is that every device (TV, VCR, DVD Recorder, etc) needs its own "box".

I think the Magnavox DVR was available as a Wal-Mart web purchase.
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underquark
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have several PVRs (bought used in varying degrees of repair to get three working ones), a DVD recorder and a USB DVB receiver for PC. I almost never use the DVD recorder nor the PC to record. The main reason is that the PVRs are just so easy to use compared to other options. Your TV might differ from the UK but I'd recommend a twin-tuner model that can at least record one, if not two, channels whilst playing back another recording. If you are going to get more than one for the same room then either get two different machines or ones that you can change the remote codes on.

For what it's worth, I have an antenna going through an amplifier/splitter to most TV's in the house and a separate antenna dedicated to one PVR. That PVR also has an uninterruptible power supply and it's antenna is passive rather than relying on going through a powered amp. We get electrical brown-outs round here whenever the weather is bad.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After an afternoon's research, I purchased the Magnavox mdr515h/F7 because this will really seems to be what I want to have here. I wanted to do the Mythtv because of the hd recording, but then realized that even though I like HD, we'll probably never subscribe to HD because the extra cost, so the SD is where were going. This will work well with WOW with everthing being sent in clear qaM, but I also have Comcast at my place in Florida.

Quote:
="zaphod7501"]I have a little grid chart on the PC telling me where to preset each box each day. (my system is actually a bit more complicated than that with 5 PC tuners, an old RCA hard drive DVR, and a Coolsat tuner/DVR)


Exactly what do you do and how automated is this?

I'm going to need to do something that scrapes the cable Guide from the internet, and then figure out what to watch.

I'd also like to write an app to take my grid and send out signals to change channels on my dta boxes in Florida where everything is sent out encrypted. Again I've got these ancient laptops that I'm using with Puppy Linux that I'd love to put to work.
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