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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| vickyg2003 wrote: |
I loaded the wav into my 9960b01 and it lines up and shoots as advertised. |
Thanks Vicky 
Incidentally, this isn't really just a DVD player as such, it's a HTIB (Home Theatre) - I got confused above when denis started saying it was controlling volume functions, which I wouldn't expect to find, so Googled the device...
I have checked the functions in the Harmony download again - they are definitely what it provides for a BBK DK1410SI.
I think we assume this wav is loading correctly in the OP remote, too - so the EFCs must be wrong for this device. This can either be
1. Because the data from Harmony's database is wrong (very rare, if ever, in my experience), or
2. Because what the manufacturer told you about your BBK DK1910SI using this same remote control is wrong, or misunderstood. I'd say reason [2] is probably a little more likely...
At least we seem to have the correct protocol/device - or it wouldn't do anything.
Just in case we got lucky I looked at the info denis has given in case it matched the built in DVD/0815 - but it doesn't seem to 
So, since we are only otherwise left with a trial and error process, I suggest the following:
denis: since you found the manufacturer helpful previously, can you contact them again, and see if they are able to provide a set of IR command button codes for your BBK DK1910SI ?
If they will do that, it should be trivial to build you a new wav file from that list.
If not, then we can talk you through a (quite long) method for testing all the available EFCs by sending them directly from your remote, one at a time - then build a new wav from the results (because otherwise it would be a huge amount of keymoves to keep stored).
Of course, if you did know someone with a JP1 learning remote and cable who could learn them for you it would simplify this enormously, but no such luck, I guess...
| denis_naum wrote: | | P.S.: guys, please, use simple words and short phrases. It is very heavy to me to understand that you write. |
Sorry...
A lot of the stuff earlier in the thread was just us making sure what we were sending you was ok.
Sometimes that gets a bit technical.
You have done everything we need - next step to talk to manufacturer again, as above.
I admire you for doing all this in a foreign language - it can't be easy. |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| 3FG wrote: | | Quote: | 5___________________________SKIPBACK
LEFT_________________________SKIPBACK |
Do both 5 and LEFT cause skipback? That would be odd. |
Could it be that one is Skip Back, and the other is Chapter Previous ?
I think I've seen "both" of these functions simultaneously on a remote before (never really worked out why, though...)... |
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denis_naum
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| jimdunn wrote: |
Could it be that one is Skip Back, and the other is Chapter Previous ?
I think I've seen "both" of these functions simultaneously on a remote before (never really worked out why, though...)... |
Most likely you are right...
I will try to communicate today with manufacturer helpful. Also I will inform you result. |
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denis_naum
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:32 am Post subject: |
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So guys the answer has come:
In the panel from DK1910SI coding NEC, device F807 address is used. |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| denis_naum wrote: | So guys the answer has come:
In the panel from DK1910SI coding NEC, device F807 address is used. |
We are already using NEC1 device 7 - which the DVD is responding to.
For building the upgrade, we need 3 things:
1. Protocol - NEC1 - we have this, and it is working - or nothing would happen in the testing you did
2. Device - we are using Device 7, which seems correct - or nothing would happen in the testing you did
So we already "know" these 2 things.
3. What we still need is a list of codes, one number for each button on the remote control - so very roughly 35 button names, each with a different number.
(explanation - We have been using the list of function codes I got from the "1410" Harmony download - but these are not controlling the correct functions, so we need the correct list)
These will probably be OBC codes - but the manufacturer may call them hex codes, or something else - we can work with whatever they give you - we may need to translate them.
So what you need is a list like:
| Code: | Power 001
Pause 002
Play 003
...
etc
....
for all buttons |
Obviously, the numbers will be different (001,002,003 are examples...), and may instead look like this (hex numbers)
| Code: |
Power B2
Pause 08
Play 3E
...
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make sure the list they give you is for the DK1910SI
That list is the only thing we should still need, because we are controlling the device already, just with buttons sending wrong codes.
The list will allow us to make each button send the right code.
Then we can make you a new wav file from that list.
__________________________________________________
As I mentioned earlier, if you can't get that list, there is still a (quite long) process we can use to get you to send codes for testing by pressing special button sequences while you watch to see if the DVD player "does" anything - and eventually we could work it all out like that - but that is quite a long process, and would mean a lot of testing for you to do. (typically, you might need to test anywhere up to 255 codes)
There is also a small risk the testing could send an undesirable code that puts the device into a "service mode" or something - so it's best to avoid this random code search if at all possible.
So if you can get the list it saves everyone a lot of time.
The fact they gave you the protocol makes me optimistic they might send the code list too |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:31 am Post subject: |
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This question is for someone who understands NEC better than I do - just to be absolutely sure I'm not making an error here:
| Quote: | | coding NEC, device F807 address |
I'm assuming that, because the device is responding to Device 7, F807 is just device 7, with its complement 248, in reverse order -
therefore just confirming our already established use of NEC1 Device 7.
I think I'm right, because the problem is shuffled function codes, not a problem making the device respond, so changing protocol/fixed data doesn't seem to make any sense here. |
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3FG
Expert
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 3367
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:56 am Post subject: |
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Jim,
An IR signal is unambigous-- part of the time the IR is being emitted and part of the time it isn't, and we know the order in which the pulses and bits are sent.
However, does on for 1 time period and off for 3 time periods mean 1 or does it mean 0? It can be either, and we don't know which definition was used by the engineers.
And, what's correct? Should the bit sent first be written on the left or the right side of the device code?
It's all pretty much arbitrary.
But I agree with you. Since the unit is responding at all, it is most likely NEC1 Device 7--unless it responds to all NEC device numbers! |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| 3FG wrote: | | Since the unit is responding at all, it is most likely NEC1 Device 7--unless it responds to all NEC device numbers! |
Well yes, that's obviously the "killer" test - the device responds.
I'll carry on for now assuming F807 backs up our use here of device 7, in a device and complement - byte reversed fashion - because it makes me happy, and because I can't think of a way that altering protocol/device/fixed data could suddenly make all these function codes which appear "wrong" change to appearing "right" - but maybe there is a way, and I'm missing it...
But I do take your point that in reality it could mean lots of other things too, depending on the designers choices in how to represent data.
Last edited by jimdunn on Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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denis_naum
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| So me have readdressed in service center of company BBK. I Have opened a topic with question at a forum of service center and now it is necessary wait the answer. |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| denis_naum wrote: | | So me have readdressed in service center of company BBK. I Have opened a topic with question at a forum of service center and now it is necessary wait the answer. |
Excellent - fingers crossed, and let's hope that they can provide a useful answer...
Thanks for letting us know |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Denis,
In the meantime, while we are waiting - could you please do a simple test for me?
I just want to make sure that what we think is going on is correct.
We think the remote with wav upgrade is sending the EFC values (key function codes) I put in the wav -
but that these are the wrong EFC values for your DVD, so it is causing the wrong functions.
To test this, please do this:
Ensure you have the version 2 wav upgrade loaded, and DVD is set to 2013. Select DVD device on your remote.
Then, with your DVD switched on, please test the following key sequences:
(I expect this to open the tray)
(I expect this to do an "A-->B")
Just press the keys normally (tap) while doing these tests (don't "hold them in" - not even SETUP), press the keys one after another as though typing, and make sure the remote is pointing at the device when you press the last key in a sequence.
As I say, this is just to help me to be sure that what we think is happening is correct.
Thanks |
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denis_naum
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Hi, Jim.
Yes, you are right. When I used a code (SETUP 0 0 1 1 8) DVD have opened a tray for a disk, a code (SETUP 0 0 2 3 3) - A-> B. |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| denis_naum wrote: | Hi, Jim.
Yes, you are right. When I used a code (SETUP 0 0 1 1 8) DVD have opened a tray for a disk, a code (SETUP 0 0 2 3 3) - A-> B. |
Thanks.
Ok - good - that confirms our thinking - that the wav file loaded correctly into your remote, and is sending what it is supposed to send.
We just have incorrect EFC codes in that wav file for your device - the Harmony download for the DK1410SI is not correct for your DK1910SI.
That means that the devices do not "share" the same remote control, as we were led to believe earlier, or possibly the OEM remote is somehow "switchable" between 2 codesets for the different models, I suppose - or even that the Harmony download data is wrong...
_________________________________________________________
Anyway, now we just need to wait for the list of function codes from the manufacturer (or consider the alternative method if that doesn't happen)
_________________________________________________________
Incidentally, that test procedure you just did is the method you can use to send any EFC from your remote - and it is what we would need to use if the manufacturer does not provide the list.
We would test for reaction to every EFC, starting from 00000, until all the functions are found.
As I mentioned, though, that is quite a lot of work, and does have that small risk that it could send a code which puts your device into a "service" mode, or something else undesirable.
Usually, if that happens, just removing the power without pressing anything else is enough to get the device "back to normal", and you can continue searching - but there is no absolute guarantee - so, because of this small risk, and the work involved anyway, I prefer to wait, as long as we think sensible, for the list of codes from the manufacturer.
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denis_naum
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Belarus
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Jim, I think that it is necessary to start to search for codes now.
In Russia, as well as in Belarus, has now begun long week-end (till March, 8th -- 4 days) and the answer from a support service we won't receive. We can use this time with advantage for us.
How you thank? |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Well, if you will take the small risk of sending a code that does something undesirable to your device...
I've never caused a serious problem doing this, and I've done it lots of times - but there are "horror" stories out there about codes which can break some devices...
So, accepting it would be at your own risk, and you could just still wait for the manufacturer list - here's how I would go about it:
1. Take a sheet of paper, or spreadsheet, and list in one column the names of all the buttons on the remote that came with your device.
2. Starting from 0000, follow the procedure for each EFC from the post above where you tested 2 EFCs. (i.e. SETUP 00001 etc...) - Try 00001, then 00002 then 00003 etc..., increasing by one each test.
3. Watch the DVD while sending these tests, and if you find an EFC that "does something", check it (by sending again) and then note the number next to the button name in your list.
4. When (if) you reach a point where every button name has a discovered number next to it, or you get as far as 00255 - stop, and post the list here.
If, during the testing, the device goes into a service menu, or does something else that is strange, immediately remove the power plug for the DVD, wait a minute or so, reconnect, and carry on testing from the NEXT EFC number.
It probably helps if you have a DVD playing while you do all this, because things like "stop", "pause" and "rewind" might not do anything you can see otherwise.
Even so, there will doubtless be some codes you may not discover - but if you post what you get from this procedure we might have some good clues - sometimes there is a pattern.
When you've found as many buttons as you think you can, post your list back here, and we'll take it from there..
A good idea, also, is to add a 3rd column to your list, where you tell us which button on your URC9960 you would like to use for the functions where it isn't obvious and button names don't match - that just saves some decisions while building your upgrade.
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