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3FG
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
On the 1067A model, you can't do EFC's that take more than 2 bytes to store the data, EFC's that are above 65535 can't be used in a keymove.

Well, you have the 6700A, and I don't, but based on feedback from satisfied "customers", I think that it is possible to manually enter EFCs above 65535, and the remote will internally convert these to the range 0-65535. However, the remote will interpret EFCs in the range from 65536 to 65536 + 255 as a single byte EFC, just as if 00000-00255 had been entered.

Or, maybe I'm misinterpreting posts made by non-savvy users. If you have a chance, would you try the experiment and see if an EFC of 65792 and above is interpreted as EFC mod 65536? There's lots of 1067A remotes out there, and I'd like to know for sure.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
vickyg2003 wrote:
On the 1067A model, you can't do EFC's that take more than 2 bytes to store the data, EFC's that are above 65535 can't be used in a keymove.

Well, you have the 6700A, and I don't, but based on feedback from satisfied "customers", I think that it is possible to manually enter EFCs above 65535, and the remote will internally convert these to the range 0-65535. However, the remote will interpret EFCs in the range from 65536 to 65536 + 255 as a single byte EFC, just as if 00000-00255 had been entered.

Or, maybe I'm misinterpreting posts made by non-savvy users. If you have a chance, would you try the experiment and see if an EFC of 65792 and above is interpreted as EFC mod 65536? There's lots of 1067A remotes out there, and I'd like to know for sure.


3fg, I'm not sure what exactly you want me to do. Do you want me to manually enter the 5-digit EFC and tell you what gets stored in the E2 area, or do you want me to shoot it and see the output.

One night when I was working on Sony codes with a kameleon user and NEITHER of us could get the EFC's over 65535 I made the mistake of thinking no remote could store these efc's, but it turned out we were both using remotes that had this oddball storage techinque. 5-digit EFC. There are not a lot of the remotes that store the data as a 5-digit EFC, but I've got two, an old Kameleon, and a 1067A.
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sassafras



Joined: 08 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:


On the 1067A model, you can't do EFC's that take more than 2 bytes to store the data, EFC's that are above 65535 can't be used in a keymove.

The same goes for some late model JP1 remotes that stored data in this format.


What would be the reason then for me being unable to store a single byte EFC then? I've tried using the values of 01981 but while it will send the signal correctly, it won't store it as a keymove.

sassafras
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3FG
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicky,

How about using EFC 03A5 = 00933 =? 66469. I suppose (hope) that 66469 will show up in the E2 area as 3A5. So I just want to know what gets stored in E2.

sassafras has already shown that On 67517 and Off 67453 shoot valid signals as part of a Setup-6-7-5-1-7 sequence, but don't work when assigned via 994. I think that demonstrates that the 1067A can recognize EFCs greater than 65535. His particular remote can't store these EFCs, but it can't seem to store 34047 either, so I doubt that tells us much about the general behavior of 1067A remotes.

sassafras,
A one byte EFC can only span the range from 0 to 255 (0 to FF in hexadecimal). The EFCs that you need to control your Denon power do need to be stored as two bytes.

The aspect that is unusual about the 1067A is that the EFC itself is stored in the remote. Most JP1 store a related number (could be 1 or 2 bytes depending on the remote), but this number is the actual data that is sent to the protocol executor. This number is called Hex data in JP1-speak, but is completely different than the Pronto Hex format that you may have run across. The EFC is an encoded version of the Hex number; the encoding was probably an attempt by UEI to protect their database.

Anyway, we have no explanation (so far) as to why your remote seemingly won't accept any sort of EFC.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sassafras, what other devices are you controlling with this remote, and what setup codes are you using to control them? If any of them use 1-byte protocols, I'd like you to try a 1-byte keymove to see if those work.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
Vicky,

How about using EFC 03A5 = 00933 =? 66469. I suppose (hope) that 66469 will show up in the E2 area as 3A5. So I just want to know what gets stored in E2.



66469 ended up in the remote as FDA5, 00933
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3FG
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the remote stores EFC as the complement of the entered number? In that case I would have expected FD5A rather than FDA5 (I should have chosen a number that didn't have an "A" and a "5" in it.) Confused
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
So the remote stores EFC as the complement of the entered number? In that case I would have expected FD5A rather than FDA5 (I should have chosen a number that didn't have an "A" and a "5" in it.) Confused

No, if I saved 00014, it stores it as 00 0E, so its not the complement unless the number is over that FFFF limit.

67517 $B8 $78 01981
34047 $C8 $3A 34047
67453 $B8 $B8 01917


Would you like me to test another one.
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3FG
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, if you have time.
Try manually saving 00933 and 64933.

64933 is the decimal representation of FDA5, so I wonder if it will be stored with the same value as 66469.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
Yes, if you have time.
Try manually saving 00933 and 64933.

64933 is the decimal representation of FDA5, so I wonder if it will be stored with the same value as 66469.


Entered Hex=== EFC
00933 $FD $A5 00933
64933 $F9 $60 64933

I'm totally not understanding what we are doing, but when I enter those numbers, the EFC ends up being exactly what I put in.
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3FG
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, we've been completely crossed up.

I'd like to find out what is stored in the Keymove/Macro area of E2 when EFCs are entered manually. I suspect that you've been reporting the Hex data associated with an EFC. For example. when I use IR to generate a 1067A image, and enter a keymove using EFC 34047, and then look at the Raw Data tab, it shows 84 FF which is 34047 written in hexadecimal notation. Going back to the Keymove tab, IR now shows me that the keymove is C8 3A, which is the translation of the EFC 34047 into data suitable for input to an executor, or what RM calls "Hex". Since the 1067A stores Keymoves as EFCs, C83A isn't actually stored in the Raw Data.

I can only use IR to generate keymoves, but it takes EFCs over 65535 without difficulty, treating them as the entered EFC mod 65536.

If the numbers you've reported are in fact EFCs converted to Hex, as the term is used in RM, then I think your experiments show the same thing-- you can enter 01981 or 67517 and the 1067A treats them as the same number, but I'm inferring that from the Hex data rather than from the value stored in E2.

So I think the 1067A accepts EFCs manually that are greater than 65535. We're still left with the problem that EFCs in the range 00000-00255 are treated as 1 byte EFCs, and that's a consequence of the convention that EFCs with a lower byte of 00 are considered to be 1 byte EFCs.
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sassafras



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not entirely sure I understand where this conversation has gone, but I imagine I don't really need to.

Robman, I tried storing 00187 (sleep) as an EFC into a button that I know works with the television - but I'm observing no change. It still performs it's original function.

I tried converting it to 65723 and again it works via setup-code but does not store the keymove.

sassafras
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3FG
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could try the 981 reset again and make sure that the remote blinks 4 times. Then check a keymove again. The reason to try this is the remote possibility that the keymove/macro memory area is full.
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sassafras



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried the 981 technique twice, back to back. While it removed my stored device control for both TV and AUX, it did nothing to allow me to store keymoves.

sassafras
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jimdunn



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a complete shot in the dark, and I offer it purely because you're having such trouble, and I didn't see it mentioned amongst the many things you have tried.
Please note I am fairly certain it's not going to help - but at least it helps you along the road to "having tried everything" Confused

There is an alternative sequence for keymoves, where you specify the "from" device and the "to" device:
Quote:
Assign Advanced Code 994 - EFC (two device modes)
PRESS and HOLD the SETUP button until the red LED flashes twice, then RELEASE.
TAP 9 - 9 - 4.
TAP the "from" DEVICE button (eg, TV)
TAP the SETUP button
TYPE the 3 or 5 digit EFC code (aka "advanced code)
TAP the "to" DEVICE button (eg, VCR)
TAP the "to" regular button (eg, VOL+) - two Blinks

As I say, I hold out very little hope that this will work if the regular method has failed, but it would only take a few seconds to test, and you could also test putting the keymove "on another device" this way.

More than likely a waste of time - maybe keymoves really are not working at all in this remote for some reason. Sad

There's also the "moving keys" method. (just as a test - because it doesn't help solve your initial problem)...
This won't help you enter the EFCs for your power commands, but testing it out could show whether keymoves can be saved on your remote when manually entered EFCs aren't involved:
Quote:
Copy one key to another
PRESS and HOLD the SETUP button until the red LED flashes twice, then RELEASE.
TAP 9 - 9 - 4.
TAP the "from" DEVICE button (eg, TV)
TAP the "from" regular button (eg, VOL+)
TAP the "to" DEVICE button (eg, VCR)
TAP the "to" regular button (eg, VOL+) - two Blinks
EXAMPLE: To use TV volume in the VCR mode, SETUP - 9 - 9 - 4 -TV - VOL UP - VCR- VOL UP - two blinks. You would have to do the same process for VOL DOWN and MUTE. NOTE 1: To assign as advanced code to a 'shift' key, simply TAP SETUP before TAPing the key in step 4 above. NOTE 2: Functions cannot be copied to the device buttons or the SETUP button.


This comment of yours:
sassafras wrote:
For example, I know the mute key works as programmed. I tried storing the 67453 code to Mute and it still mutes the device--essentially it's as if the codes are refusing to be stored.

leads me to suspect that nothing may be getting stored at all. If the remote were merely storing the wrong values for the EFCs, for the reasons discussed above, then I think I would expect the moved key to do nothing at all to the device, or something random, rather than just continuing to perform its original function.

You're getting the "double blink" indicating the remote thinks it saved a valid keymove - but then, the keymove doesn't work - perhaps because it was never really saved at all - (or, I suppose, because it isn't being correctly "looked up" in subsequent keypress routines....). Some remotes I have, such as some "Atlas" remotes will seem to "go through the motions" of initiating learning, or deleting learned keys, but won't learn, because they don't have the correct components installed - perhaps an internal fault would also display this kind of "symptom".

If it were my remote, (and I didn't have access to an interface cable to try and see what was really going on...), I'd probably also test to see if macros could be saved successfully, just to try and establish if you had a "wider" issue than just keymoves - possibly indicating a faulty remote.
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