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Sony 4ES DSP codes-My Holy Grail.

 
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JohnTucker



Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:11 pm    Post subject: Sony 4ES DSP codes-My Holy Grail. Reply with quote

ARRRGH....OK...this is my last attempt at this project. Smile Help me ObiWan....

I'm trying to get the DSP functions to work with my new Sony 4ES receiver. Here's what I've tried so far:

#1: Receiver is set to AV1.
#2: Searched JP1 Yahoo site and RemoteCentral.
#3: Downloaded ALL (yes ALL) of the Sony receiver device codes from the JP1 files section and tried them one at a time in both my 1994 and 2116. (Yes...I'm JP1 cable and KM spreadsheet literate).

(Note: The DSP device codes used to work JUST FINE with my previous Sony 30ES receiver...I was a 'beta tester' for Robman when he was originally working on those codes.)

#4: I'm actually trying to get these to work on a MX-700...so I used the MX software to import several varieties of CCF files.
#5: And, of course, I tried to learn directly from the OEM remote. It's also set to AV1.

None of the above has worked. I can get general controles to work...even the DSP toggle +/- is easy and available. But the direct DSP commands are unreachable right now. Any ideas????? Many thanks in advance.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18511
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey John,
Sounds like Sony has messed things up for ya! You should see the number of posts over at RC from people with new Sony receivers who can't get their OFA/RS remotes to work them until Edmund comes along and points out that they need to switch from AV2 mode to AV1 mode.

So, now it sounds like they have changed the DSP codes too. I just checked Rob Humphrey's site (the "other" Rob) and he appears to have a bunch of new Sony DSP codes there, did you check those by any chance?

His URL is...
http://www.anycities.com/rhm5757/sony_home.htm

In the meantime, have you tried learning the signals from your new Sony remote? If you can get a good learn that works, we might be able to figure it all out from the learned results.
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JohnTucker



Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Robman,

Good to hear from you.

Yeah...I've gone to that website and looked over the codes. However, he notes that the GREEN highlighted items are for the newer Sony's. I haven't found any of the DSP commands (other than the toggle) highlighted in GREEN. I'll look again just to make sure....but I don't think I'm in left field on this one. I have tried a 2 or 3 of his recommended codes...but they haven't worked.

Also...yeah...I've tried all variety of learning from the OEM remote. Different distances. Long press. Short press. Nothin'. El-Blah-O.

Damnit, Jim....I'm just a country doctor.....

If you think of anything else...would love to hear it. Cheers.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it might be a long shot, but if you think I'll have any better luck learning from the Sony remote (perhaps with my Pronto) you could send me the remote and I'll try. Email me if your interested.
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JohnTucker



Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually...I was thinking of asking you just that!!! Glad you offered. Yeah...I'd be happy to send the remote your way. Email on the way.
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mjclifford



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnTucker,

I just saw your entry on this topic. It's timely - that's the exact task on the docket for the next couple of weeks. Same gear (4es, JP1 cable and an 8811remote.


If you turn up anything, please let me know. Regards,

mjclifford
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just FYI, John has sent me his Sony remote to play with. I have only had time to learn about 1/2 of the DSP commands, but at first glance they look exactly the same as the ones generated by the Sony DSP protocol, so i have no idea why this didn't work for John.

When I get a chance I will try to take a much closer look.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I think I've spotted it. This remote is only sending the header portion twice, whereas the previous remotes had sent it three times.

I'll throw a test code together tomorrow for you to test John.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the number of times the header is sent would matter. I helped someone with problems with Sony DSP using a Pronto. His original sent the header three times. The version we got to work sent the header only once AND had longer pauses between the parts than the original. My conclusion is that the device isn't very picky about those details.
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jon_armstrong
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, Rob Humphries recently reported that the DSP commands (once demodulated) are the same as Sony Control-A wired commands

http://www.anycities.com/rhm5757/Sony_dsp.htm

where he says:

"Sony’s 2-way receivers use these codes for all kinds of discrete codes and 2-way transmission of information, as well as special commands for other things that could be done with normal IR commands, but are faster and discrete"

and

"I have recently discovered some 2-part codes for the Preamp device, these codes have a one time code and a repeating part where the 3rd byte is different between the non-repeating code and the repeating codes"

I have been meaning to go back and look at these Sony 8-bit commands in view of John's recent decoding of the Async type serial communications commands used in keyboards.

John, is this the reason that you think that the interval between commands is not important?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a sample of Pronto hex for one of the old DSP commands:

IR Code: "LEARNED" 0000 0067 005B 0000 0060 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0394 0060 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0394 0060 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0394 0060 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 04E6 0060 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 04FE 0060 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 052E 0060 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018
freq=40.2KHz
(SONY15):36:96 EFC = 002 ? 250 {in single part using 16 of 91 pairs}
TimeBase=596 Prefix=4.0,-1.0 Zero=1.0,-1.0 One=2.0,-1.0 Suffix = -38.2 Total = 76
(SONY15):36:96 EFC = 002 ? 250 {offset 16 in single part using 16 of 91 pairs}
TimeBase=596 Prefix=4.0,-1.0 Zero=1.0,-1.0 One=2.0,-1.0 Suffix = -38.2 Total = 76
(SONY15):36:96 EFC = 002 ? 250 {offset 32 in single part using 16 of 91 pairs}
TimeBase=596 Prefix=4.0,-1.0 Zero=1.0,-1.0 One=2.0,-1.0 Suffix = -38.2 Total = 76
(SONY8)::195 {offset 48 in single part using 9 of 91 pairs}
TimeBase=596 Prefix=4.0,-1.0 Zero=1.0,-1.0 One=2.0,-1.0 Suffix = -52.2 Total = 76
(SONY8)::81 {offset 57 in single part using 9 of 91 pairs}
TimeBase=596 Prefix=4.0,-1.0 Zero=1.0,-1.0 One=2.0,-1.0 Suffix = -53.2 Total = 76
(SONY8)::1 {offset 66 in single part using 9 of 91 pairs}
TimeBase=596 Prefix=4.0,-1.0 Zero=1.0,-1.0 One=2.0,-1.0 Suffix = -55.3 Total = 76
(SONY15):23:16 EFC = 082 ? 074 {offset 75 in single part using 16 of 91 pairs}
TimeBase=596 Prefix=4.0,-1.0 Zero=1.0,-1.0 One=2.0,-1.0 Suffix = -1.0 Total = 40


And here's a sample of one of the new DSP commands (different OBC):

"ex b" "LEARNED" (Sony15):36:96 EFC=002 or 250
(Sony15):36:96 EFC=002 or 250
(Sony15):36:96 EFC=002 or 250
(Sony8)::195
(Sony8)::81
(Sony8)::5
(Sony15):23:20 EFC=083 or 075
freq=40.6KHz
0000 0066 005B 0000 0060 0019 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0380 0060 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0380 0060 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0380 0060 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0147 0060 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 015F 0060 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0177 0060 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0019

If anyone spots any differences, other than the number of headers, please let me know.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
If anyone spots any differences, other than the number of headers, please let me know.


I see fewer differences than you see, not more Smile

There's no difference in the number of headers. Both of those have exactly three copies of the header frame, exactly three data frames and exactly one check frame (I didn't compute whether the contents of the check frame follow the check rules RHM posted).

Where did you think you saw a difference in the number of headers?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duh! I guess it's because the first EFC line is beside the "learned" tag, whereas the others are all lined up below it.

Oh well, anybody have any guesses (other than user error) as to why this doesn't work for John?
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rhm5757
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course I'll spot the difference, once I find the thread. I normally don't read this forum.

The only difference is the total time for each of the bytes. The old codes have a much longer delay after each byte than the new codes. I didn't know about this difference, I only knew about the new codes, where the total time for each byte is 22200 us. The old codes have the same total time for bytes as the regular codes, 45000 us.

I tried putting the SonyDSP protocol into my 15-2104 I use for testing and learning and took it to Best Buy, but it didn't work on the STR-DEx95 series receivers they had. Maybe this timing difference is why. I was trying to test potential volume discretes based on the pattern in the Control-A1/SonyDSP codes.

There are so many codes in this protocol, since it's really the Control-A1 codes in disguise. I found that certain IR CD codes matched with the Control-A1 CD codes on another website, and then discovered matches with the receiver codes in the Slink-e data files. I'm trying to list all of the Control-A1/SonyDSP codes from the various sources on my website in a condensed format. I haven't had much time to work on it in the last month, however, but I have the receiver and some of the CD codes on my site. It's tough to use these codes with JP1 remotes, but with a Pronto these codes are just as easy to use as any others. I would really like to see if there are actually Sony volume discretes; I know a lot of people at Remote Central would like them. I wish I had a Pronto to test them with, since I wrote a program to generate any SonyDSP code for me, and I can easily compare the output with a learned code. I don't really trust myself modifying the upgrade protocol for these codes, since I have no idea if it's generating the right code (especially the right checksum).
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right, I hadn't noticed the lead-out time. The old signals use a time of approximately 0500 (in Pronto hex) whereas the new signals use a time of approximately 0160 which is significantly smaller (it's about 1/4th of the original).

Here's a modified version of the "Sony DSP" protocol that you can test, where I've reduced the lead-out time...

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 01 42 (S3C8)
3A 8A 21 8B 14 F5 14 07 08 02 58 01 18 01 2C 01
18 15 f4 04 B0 01 18 00 03 B0 0D 00 10 F6 01 33
F6 01 33 F6 01 33 B0 12 E6 04 C3 F6 01 33 E6 04
8A F6 01 33 E4 05 04 F6 01 33 E6 12 07 E6 03 D0
B6 04 89 8D 01 33
End

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 01 42 (S3C8+)
3A 8A 21 8B 14 F5 14 07 08 02 58 01 18 01 2C 01
18 15 f4 04 B0 01 18 00 03 B0 0D 00 10 F6 01 46
F6 01 46 F6 01 46 B0 12 E6 04 C3 F6 01 46 E6 04
8A F6 01 46 E4 05 04 F6 01 46 E6 12 07 E6 03 D0
B6 04 89 8D 01 46
End
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