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Problem with Outlaw Audio Remote
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DrD



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Allen, TX

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:42 am    Post subject: Problem with Outlaw Audio Remote Reply with quote

I have a problem with my Outlaw Audio remote, and it helped me find your website - I'm very happy to find all the good information your group has put together. I'm now very excited to build an interface and try some of the tools you have in your files section. But before I undertake these new possibilities, can anyone please help me solve my original problem ??

I've had my Outlaw Audio 1050 receiver for about 3 or 4 years, and I absolutely love it. I've never had a bad problem until now. The remote allowed me to easily program my other components, and I've always had good control of them with this remote. A few weeks ago, the remote started to "forget" the component I was controlling, so I would have to press "cable" again (for example) to finish sending a channel selection to the cable box. I decided it was time to change the batteries - I'm not sure if I'd done this before, I believe I had. After the batteries were changed, suddenly I cannot control my Outlaw Receiver anymore! This is strange because the "tuner" functions of the receiver are meant to be permanent, part of the uP command set, so I don't see how they could be lost. My other components were also lost, but no big deal since I could re-program those. But I can't program the Outlaw receiver code. I called Steve at Outlaw who'd helped me in the past but he was stumped. We tried reading out the code with 9-9-0, and we tried restoring to factory defaults with 9-9-2 and "Tuner-Tuner", but still no luck. I've tried leaving the batteries out, shorting pins 3 and 5 of the JP1 and nothing seems to reset the remote to its original state. I cannot control my Outlaw receiver. Crying or Very sad

Since it's out of warranty, Steve says I will have to pay $50 for another remote, but I simply can't believe there isn't another way. Has anyone seen this problem or can guess why it has happened ?? With the new batteries in, I've re-programmed almost all of my devices and am controlling them again, but not the Outlaw receiver. I tried scanning for it, but Steve says its pointless since the "tuner" function isn't programmable, it's meant to be hard-coded from the factory. Any thoughts or ideas - I'm very frustrated. I hope using IR.exe to access the remote may offer some new opportunity to reset or re-program the device.

Thanks,
Darren
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gjarboni
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Joined: 20 Sep 2003
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Location: Columbia, MD

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two things. First, the JP1 tools (IR.exe & Keymap master or Remote Master) will let you reprogram your remote to control your receiver (assuming your remote isn't fried, which doesn't seem likely). Second, as to why it happened -- JP1 remotes store their settings in either the eeprom (non-volatile storage) or in RAM. It sounds like something happened to make your remote stop using the eeprom. Either the data on the eeprom got corrupted which caused the checksum to become invalid or the chip stopped working (most likely the former). I think the best way to proceed is:

1) Create or buy a JP1 interface
2) If you buy parts at Radio Shack, you might want to pick up a 15-2116 (or you can go to Walmart and buy a 8810w). The point here is to have a "known good" remote that you can play with.
3) Once you can download from a remote, plug in your Outlaw remote and download using IR.exe. Note any errors that IR gives you (bad checksum, no RDF, etc.) and post them. Save the resulting file.
4) If it's only a checksum problem, uploading from IR.exe to the remote will fix the problem.

I know this probably seems confusing now, but after reading up on JP1 it will make more sense. Oh and finally, the last steps:

5) Return the 15-2116 or 8810w (if you don't like it and don't have a use for it).
6) Come back with more questions.
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mr_d_p_gumby
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: Problem with Outlaw Audio Remote Reply with quote

DrD wrote:
Has anyone seen this problem or can guess why it has happened ??
It's possible that, as Jason just said above, the EEPROM contents are corrupted. This could be a result of the remote writing to it with the worn out batteries (low voltage). If so, there's no permanent damage.
DrD wrote:
This is strange because the "tuner" functions of the receiver are meant to be permanent, part of the uP command set, so I don't see how they could be lost.
They are a permanent part of the uP's ROM, along with thousands of other functions for other devices. However, the EEPROM was telling the remote which one of those sets of codes to use for your receiver, and it's forgotten it.
DrD wrote:
... and we tried restoring to factory defaults with 9-9-2 and "Tuner-Tuner", but still no luck.
That's not what we refer to as a reset to factory defaults; that only reassigns a device button to it's native device type. If you truly want to try that, it's 9-8-1. Make sure you know what other codes you are using first, because it will also reset them.
DrD wrote:
I tried scanning for it, but Steve says its pointless since the "tuner" function isn't programmable, it's meant to be hard-coded from the factory.
I don't think Steve is quite correct about this. UEI actually made this same remote for other manufacturers, so a true reset to factory defaults would be relative to UEI's factory, not Outlaw's. What you are missing here is the correct setup code to use for the Tuner device button, and that I don't know offhand (there are over 100 setup codes available for the Tuner device in that remote). Maybe Steve could take a working remote at the factory and blink back the code with 9-9-0 for you. Or, maybe someone else will see your post here who knows the correct code.
DrD wrote:
I hope using IR.exe to access the remote may offer some new opportunity to reset or re-program the device.
We may be a little biased around here, but I suspect that once you've used the JP1 tools on your remote, you'll wonder how you ever got along without them! 8)
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gjarboni
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem with Outlaw Audio Remote Reply with quote

mr_d_p_gumby wrote:
DrD wrote:
... and we tried restoring to factory defaults with 9-9-2 and "Tuner-Tuner", but still no luck.
That's not what we refer to as a reset to factory defaults; that only reassigns a device button to it's native device type. If you truly want to try that, it's 9-8-1. Make sure you know what other codes you are using first, because it will also reset them.

The Outlaw Audio code is in the Eeprom (at least in the dump that Rob posted from an Outlaw Audio remote here) so a 981 reset will definitely erase that.

Darren, the link above would be a good place to start once you get your JP1 cable and your eeprom contents are lost (it will save you the trouble of creating an Outlaw Audio device yourself)
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mr_d_p_gumby
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem with Outlaw Audio Remote Reply with quote

gjarboni wrote:
(at least in the dump that Rob posted from an Outlaw Audio remote here)
You beat me to it Jason! I just found that file myself. Laughing

So, if you get a JP1 cable, the file Jason mentioned can be used to restore your remote to it's "factory" state using only the IR program. (We're assuming that the file is correct, but if not, then maybe Rob can confirm it's status.)
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised that we haven't seen more posts like this about the Outlaw remote because we've had a TON of them from people using the ReplayTV remote, which is similar.

Basically the Outlaw remote (Catalyst48) and ReplayTV remote (Catalyst34) are both "OEM" remotes made by UEI with a generic setup code library pre-installed. Then when the OEM (such as Outlaw or ReplayTV) comes along and orders these remotes, they ask that they be programmed to work a specific device. This is done by way of adding an upgrade to the EEPROM, so it's not "burned in".

When you change the batteries in these remotes, sometimes a 981-style reset can be accidentally invoked, which causes the upgrade codes to be erased. The ONLY cure for this is JP1.

Actually, the codes aren't really erased, there are just some pointers that are reset to their default values. A JP1 expert can usually restore the codes by manually patching the data. (Which I just did for someone using the "Anthem" version of the Cat48). However, that's not necessary in this case because we already have an EEPROM image from the Outlaw.

Could you give me Steve's contact info so I can inform him how to fix these remotes.
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DrD



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Allen, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:37 am    Post subject: Thanks for the help Reply with quote

Wow, some really good info, thanks very much. Very Happy

I can see I'm well on my way to finding a solution to this, and I'm glad I'm learning alittle something about JP1 in the process. I'm happy I just finished building my cable tonight, and I'm looking forward to reloading the appropriate codes to the remote. A few quick notes: we did try to use the blink-back method on a working "tuner" function of a remote he had in his work area, but he got no response on any of the 4 digits. That is good to know about 9-8-1 for a true factory-reset, but maybe I'll wait on that now since I'll soon have the JP1 interface up and running, and it sounds like it wouldn't solve my problem in any case.

Well, I decided to go ahead and try my interface cable so I can add those questions here. I received a very small shock as I was pushing my 6-pin header onto the JP1 pins, I hope this did not damage anything at the parallel port of the PC. I should have connected the parallel port end of the cable after the JP1 connector was attached. Rolling Eyes But fortunately, when I ran the "Check Interface..." from the IR tool, the message reported it succeeded.

My next effort was to perform a download. Now I receive an error message but not the one that Tommy Tyler suggested I might see in his "Simple Interface, Rev 4" document. My error message says, "Bad checksum at address $0000. Expected $44, $BB but found $83, $7C" I don't see anything in his troubleshooting section regarding this error. To me, this sounds like my hardware may be ok, and I actually have a problem reading the data from the device ? What do you think - do I need to re-check my wiring, or is this an indicator of the failures in the remote. Any tips or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Also, I found some data in the Raw Data section of the tool (see image) after I clicked OK on the error message - does this mean I successfully loaded this data from the remote ?

Regards,
Darren

<image removed>
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Last edited by DrD on Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than posting a screen shot of IR.exe, you should post the actual IR.exe dump in the Diagnosis Area, then we can look at the data in IR.exe ourselves.
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Thanks for the help Reply with quote

DrD wrote:
I received a very small shock as I was pushing my 6-pin header onto the JP1 pins, I hope this did not damage anything at the parallel port of the PC. I should have connected the parallel port end of the cable after the JP1 connector was attached.


No, that would have increased the risk of damage. The shock was static electricity in your body discharging through the parallel port. On a dry day you should try to touch something grounded before making any kind of computer cable connections. But it doesn't sound like any harm was done.

DrD wrote:

"Bad checksum at address $0000. Expected $44, $BB but found $83, $7C" [/b]I don't see anything in his troubleshooting section regarding this error. To me, this sounds like my hardware may be ok, and I actually have a problem reading the data from the device ? What do you think - do I need to re-check my wiring, or is this an indicator of the failures in the remote.


It is NOT caused by anything wrong with your wiring, nor by any other hardware problem (remote or PC).

Maybe it is a data problem in the remote (the eeprom checksum really is wrong and IR.EXE would correct it if you uploaded, or the remote would correct it if you did a 981 reset).

More likely, it indicates that the RDF that IR.EXE chose (based on the remote's signature) is not the correct RDF for your remote (probably the eeprom size is wrong as well). I don't know enough about versions of the Outlaw remote or its RDFs to give better detail on that guess.

DrD wrote:

Also, I found some data in the Raw Data section of the tool (see image) after I clicked OK on the error message - does this mean I successfully loaded this data from the remote ?


Yes. A checksum error usually means you correctly loaded the data. Depending on how wrong the RDF is, you may even find that the General, KeyMove, etc. tabs of IR show correct information. (The RDF tells IR how to interpret the raw data to show contents of those other tabs).
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mr_d_p_gumby
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: Thanks for the help Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
More likely, it indicates that the RDF that IR.EXE chose (based on the remote's signature) is not the correct RDF for your remote (probably the eeprom size is wrong as well).
Or, possibly, that it chose the correct RDF, but the RDF caused IR to alter one or more bytes of "fixed data" upon downloading that caused the checksum to appear incorrect. If this is the case, you can ignore the error message.
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DrD



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
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Location: Allen, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:22 am    Post subject: Reprogramming Reply with quote

Quote:
Rather than posting a screen shot of IR.exe, you should post the actual IR.exe dump in the Diagnosis Area, then we can look at the data in IR.exe ourselves.


Ok, sorry - seems I need to play with IR.exe a bit more to know how it works and what is meant by the data on each of the tabs. The main things was to know if I had gotten as far is transferring data to and from the remote, and it sounds like I have. I will begin to experiment with different RDF files and uploading to the remote. I believe it gave me a choice of 2 RDFs when I started the Download option and I selected the one that said Outlaw Audio. I'm not sure, I'll do this process again and read up on the way IR works. Maybe I had the wrong definition file.

It was also interesting to see that when I looked at the first main tab which displayed codes for my VCR, DVD, AUX, etc. it seemed that some of the codes were correct and some were not. I'll post in a few days when I have a better understanding of what I'm seeing.

Regards,
Darren
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DrD



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
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Location: Allen, TX

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:22 am    Post subject: Got the TUNER working again! Reply with quote

Woohoo - I made some good progress !! Razz

I'm so glad I found your webpage and software tools. I went ahead with a factory reset on the Outlaw remote and no change. My next idea was to take the dump file you provided in the link above and upload it to the remote. That got my TUNER function working again!! Alright, what a good feeling.

Next, I decided to try re-program my other devices, but I'm encountering some strange things now. For some reason, I can't get codes that I know are good to program onto my AUX or VCR buttons - it's like they're blocked. Yet these same codes worked fine for these buttons not too long ago. I can put the same codes onto the CBL button and it works fine. It's a bit confusing, can anyone point me to some threads that might explain this ? I've tried programming both from IR and with the remote and no luck. I'll read through some posts and try to get a better understanding of what I need to do. At least for now, I'm controlling my Outlaw, TV and DVD player, and that's a very good start.

Thanks,
Darren
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In IR.exe, go to the General tab, then scroll down through the "Other Settings" and I think you'll find what you're looking for.
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DrD



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only one that is locked is the tuner. Isn't that the way it should be ? That was my first thought also when I first saw the problem. What is the meaning of the VPT settings for each ?

Thanks,
Darren
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really don't need any of them locked, but yes, only Tuner should be locked. (Just FYI, this feature is to let OEMs like Outlaw lock the setup code for their device onto one of the device buttons. After all, they don't want you to be able to just use the remote as a full 8 device universal remote).

The VPT settings tell you which device the volume punches through to in each device mode.

How are you trying to program these "good" codes? Through IR or using the remote? And what are the codes?
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