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OARC05G
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binky123
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Joined: 14 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The S3F80K9 is a 32KB model MCU and has less active pins(port3.2 and above and all of port4 are gone). The TOOL mode pins are located differently than in the S3F80JB, so this is probably why the JP1.3 pins were not installed. It's possible the remote still can talk the JP1.3 communications protocol. They couldn't bring out those pins to the 6-pin pads because they needed 2 pins for TOOL mode. I guess a TOOL(I2C) mode program may need to be developed at some point.

I would solder wires to P3.0(IDC-4 Rx) and P3.1(IDC-6 Tx) and see if IR.exe can talk with it. At a minimum, you can ground P3.0 and toggle IDC-2(nRESET) and see if the remote becomes "unresponsive". If it is unresponsive, it is probably in "JP1.3 communications mode". Good Luck.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am watching with interest as this thread develops because it appears that UEI have changed platforms again and pretty soon we'll be seeing lots of remotes with configurations like this, so it's good that we're getting a bit of an early warning so we can try and be prepared for when this platform becomes the norm.
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Pichet



Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Posts: 26
Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets recapitulate. That remote control which was sold as an "RCA 5N1 Remote" corresponds to catalog number 151-8212p at TheSource.CA while the package and casing are clearly identified as "One for All", model "COARC05G"; two older units are marked "OARC05G" instead and i didn't look inside to establish if they were physically identical. A stamp on the battery compartment door shows the model number and date code again, it also provides information which confirms the signature obtained via the blink-back procedure. The circuit board inside is from "Audiovox Accessories Corporation" and this marking provides information about its micro-controller:

CDRC44iUS3F80K-Q001(v1.1)

Unfortunately, i wasn't able to get a perfect match from Samsung's site. There's a real possibility here that the pin layout might actually differ, all i can tell is that the "N.C." pins, the power pins, the crystal pins (and maybe some more) appear to correspond exactly to the Samsung S3F80K9 chip in its 44 pins QFP version.



On top of that, the manufacturer didn't choose to select the conventionally QFP packaged version of Samsung's micro-controller as described in its documention: the silicon die sits on the circuit board directly and there's just no easy-to-read marking on it to reveal what specific model this is, to be exact.



My suggestion at this stage would be to proceed with a revision of the March 11 Remote Chart in order to include the 151-8212p model offered by TheSource, in order to prevent further identification errors consecutive to visual comparisons: it's not just the packaging that differs, i'm afraid, and it's no URC-7950 in any case!

As a conclusion, it might prove to be most interesting to see photographs of the non-branded original units as sold by One for All and/or Audiovox/RCA. I've tried hard to find the later products even searching on web sites belonging to stores located in remote cities such as Toronto. No joy there neither... Anyway, lets not forget this is an item that was sold for 15 $ Can last week: my attempt to find a ready-made JP1/JP1.x remote control has failed but that's no reason to become obsessive about it!



I guess i'll need to learn more about the JP1.x protocol in order to justify further time/money spending, this could take a while... 1st, if i am to do as Binky123 has suggested, i must acquire a USB adaptor from my local store to proceed with these preliminary tests. I confess that wasn't on my agenda, initially...

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binky123
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure remote works/transmits and batteries are good and in place.

A simple test is to ground U1-3. Momentarily ground U1-12(or IDC-2) and then release. If the remote supports the JP1.3 serial communications mode, the remote should now be "unresponsive" to button presses on the remote. To get it out of serial comm mode, remove ground from U1-3. You can either momentarily ground U1-12(or IDC-2) and then release or you can remove/replace the batteries to reset the remote.
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Pichet



Joined: 14 Aug 2010
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Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood but there are some things i want to deal with 1st:

1) let the heat wave pass (next 3 days or so)
2) get more details on the U1.3/U1.4 area
3) get a header installed
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Pichet



Joined: 14 Aug 2010
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Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus i have three questions:

1) Why is there a golder pad for U1.15 while it leads nowhere else?
2) Which end is 1st to start a serial dialogue after changing mode?
3) Is a welcome screen (prompt) sent as the serial session begins?

...and maybe some more:

4) Since this could be a next generation JP1.x product, what speed?

I mean, if i were to develop one i'd sure have speed on my mind!...

So:

5) What's the best this 8 MHz micro-controller can do with no UART?
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pichet wrote:
...4) Since this could be a next generation JP1.x product, what speed?
I think cost and capacity drives these changes more than speed. I'd still expect uploads/downloads in IR to take about 3 seconds. That hasn't really changed much in the 10 years JP1 has been around. If you're talking about actual remote performance, that's always been instantaneous.
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binky123
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy told me he tried my simple test and was getting 2 LED blinks so remote was not "unresponsive". Thus, it doesn't look like they left the JP1.3 serial comm code in the remote. It looks like the only communication may be TOOL mode. TOOL mode has a security mode where reads all return 0x00. It may be turned on. Thus, only erases/writes work. I wonder if we could erase/write into some area our own serial comm code and somehow get it to run.

If anyone wants to develop a TOOL program, any current JP1.3 remote should work(with appropriate cable that has pin5 connected) as you could always use the JP1.3 serial comm mode to verify and fix things.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that sounds like a task for Tommy, I'm not sure how many other qualified folks we have here to try it. But hey, if you know what you're doing, give it a shot.
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Kevin Timmerman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The entire flash memory has to be bulk erased before anything can be written. It is not possible to do block or byte level writes. It is a proprietary protocol, not IIC.
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Pichet



Joined: 14 Aug 2010
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Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll pass, that's way beyond the scope of my initial venture!
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binky123
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just more info in case anyone delves into this area further.

This web page here has the SPW2Plus.exe programming tool for use with the single socket programmer that can be used to program the SAM8 S3F80 chips. Seems to be a RS232 based programmer(may be able to use a com port sniffer?). The newer programmers are USB based(SPW-uni and AS-Pro).

Not sure if this is relevant but I recall seeing spurious writes(may have been erases) in the older JP1.3 remotes when pin5 was attached(acting as an "antenna"). After that, we disconnected pin5 at the JP1 IDC connector point to prevent remote from entering TOOL mode.


Last edited by binky123 on Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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unclemiltie
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Timmerman wrote:
The entire flash memory has to be bulk erased before anything can be written. It is not possible to do block or byte level writes. It is a proprietary protocol, not IIC.


are you talking about the device or TOOL mode?

The device is block addressable for writes. The entire block has to be erased and then the new data written. (if you want to modify a block, you need to read to RAM, modifiy in RAM, erase and then write the modified block) this is well documented into the S3F80 data sheet.
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Kevin Timmerman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

External programming using a device programmer or ICE requires bulk erasure if code protection is enabled.
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Pichet



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Location: Quebec/Qc, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there anything learned from the JP1 project which may be usefull with my One for All model COARC05G (TheSource.CA branded model 151-8212p) that doesn't require a JP1/JP1.x adaptor cable?
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