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DecodeIR, RM and KM request: Yamaha extended NEC gap signals
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
YStyle :NEC|Y1|Y2|Y3=0 is fine.

Done. I also updated the Notes to refer to "NEC" rather than "none" and have posted the changes to SourceForge for Greg to use.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Graham.
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ElizabethD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a 5-dev Yamaha combo in KM? Looks like I might need those listed in Rob's file (with few changes) and 122.133
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8765

Not sure what "custom" means - custom devices on those scene buttons?
This is for Yamaha receiver RX-V567 where some devices and codes differ from the first KM file, the one with ManualUpgrade in it
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8740
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Liz
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liz,
I don't understand the question. Device 122 is shorthand for 122.133, in which the device and subdevice add to 255. That's the original NEC IR protocol behavior. Later people started using the second byte of the device as an independent subdevice, rather than just using the complement of the first byte, which I think was an error detection strategy.

As far as I can see, Rob's upgrades actually only use 3 devices (122(.133), 126 (.129) and 127.1. I don't actually see any usage of device 124.

In any event, there aren't any 5 device combo executors for NEC or the Yamaha variant.
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ElizabethD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see from learning
121
122
122.133
124
126
127.1

121 occurs in CDscene mode, probably not needed
I think 124 belongs to BD/DVD scene so is likely external and not needed

So that leaves me with 126, 127.1, 122 and 122.133 and you say the last two is the same thing, and on the Setup sheet it appears to be so, but IRscope makes a distinction between the two which is what throws me off. It's that Gap thing.

If 122.133=122 then it looks like this receiver is different from the linked file 8740 in some of the codes even though the file mentions my receiver. Which is ok, and I haven't put it into KM yet -- just trying to figure out what's what first.
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When DecodeIR.dll recognizes a NEC signal, and the subdevice follows the original rules, it only shows the device and not the subdevice as a convenient shorthand. But a "Gap" signal means that it isn't recognized, and so decodeIR gives as much info as it can.

Also, please consider using http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8765 instead of 8740. In fact, I hope Rob will see fit to remove 8740. 8765 has the same content, but describes the upgrade as a NEC 4DEV Yamaha Combo rather than "Manual Settings". It's quite a bit easier to understand, and I'd like to see the proliferation of Manual Settings minimized. BTW, contrary to the info in the file description, RM 2.00 does handle the file. The whole point of this thread was to put this capability into KM and RM.
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ElizabethD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand now better what decodeIR was telling.

I am trying Rob's file, 8765 because I gather the earlier file was while you were all struggling and making a manual protocol.

That said, surprises abound.

Some Rob's OBCs that match my learning don't work (Power!!)
Power toggle in Rob's file is obc=42, 2 1 hex AB 60... 2 1(126)
IRscope for it is obc=42 on 126 hex AB
so should it or should it not work?

Some Rob's OBCs for 122 which do not match my IRscope file (122.133) work (inputs). I think I understand in KM 2 1 or 3 1 but not the Y thing.
For instance, for AV1 Rob has obc=71, then 1 1 Y ... 1 1(122).
IRscope for AV1 returns obc=44 on 122.133. So why does it work?

If I really understood, I'd be building my own file from scratch, but at this point I'm totally confused. See ya in couple hours Smile

Edit: power is ok, see post below
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Last edited by ElizabethD on Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3FG wrote:
In fact, I hope Rob will see fit to remove 8740.

Done.
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ElizabethD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Power not working was my error. I didn't notice the upgrade used Phantom1 which is an important button in the 8910 extender as it sets the key assignments.
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Liz
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, fiddle!
I looked at http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8765.
It doesn't import into RM 2.00 correctly. This upgrade file was made by Rob using his development version of KM9.21, and it denotes what the release version of KM9.21 now calls "Y1" by "Y". I didn't notice this when adapting the importer class for RM, and the logic used there erroneously translates "Y" to "Y3".

By now, there have probably been quite a few downloads of RMIR2.00, and I'm reluctant to modify the importer class at this point, especially since this may be the only example of a KM file that uses the "Y" notation.

So....
Rob, would you be willing to load up 8765 into Mike's version of KM9.21, change each instance of "Y" to "Y1" (in the byte2 NEC pair 2 column) and re-upload the KM file here?

I'll attempt to scan the Audio and Combo Audio sections to see if there are any other instances of this.
ETA: I checked and this is the only file with the "Y" notation.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Done, and I created an RM version...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=9186
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I should have though of that possibility and coded it differently.
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ElizabethD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you guys built all this great. But I'm so confused.
Rob's 122.133 signals work the receiver.
My 122.133 signals I got in IRscope do not work the receiver.

Now, here's the odd thing. Rob's obc numbers are seen in IR scope just like the OBCs I get from the OEM remote.
But my OBC numbers get converted in IRscope to the values Rob used in the latest KM file with -4 at the end.

So how do I convert what IRscope says to what Rob's file says? What if Rob didn't make a file? I'd put wrong numbers in and nothing works.

Evidence using just 3 signals:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=9188
This has become my troubles thread. Rob, you can move it to General if you wish.
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Liz
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What? You haven't read through a few dozen pages of the Yamaha "gap" saga? Very Happy

DecodeIR is missing a feature, and you've been bitten by it. Notice that your learned OBCs and Rob's OBCs add up to 127. DecodeIR is giving you the a value which is (127-OBC). If instead you look at the hexadecimal stuff in the Misc column, you can get the OBC directly. For example your learned OBC of 53 is also shown as 7A.85.4A.35. The 7A is the device (7A = 122), 85 (= 133) is the subdevice, 4A (=74) is the OBC, and the last number is 35 (= 53). DecodeIR doesn't recognize the signal and erroneously lists 53 as the OBC.

The reason it doesn't recognize the signal is that ordinary NEC would have B5 as the last hex number, so that 4A and B5 would add up to FF (alternatively, the last two bytes are the bit complement of each other.)

Instead the last two bytes add to 7F (127) and we've decided to call that Yamaha style "Y1". It would be style Y2 if the sum is 254 or 256.
Y3: sum is 126 or 128.
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ElizabethD
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile Smile
I read this thread. I read it again. I reread it today. Will read it more.
I understand every word and almost every sentence. But not the message Sad

So not to screwup any further, I take what IRscope gave me and take the diff from 127.
Do I do it for all signals or just those that speak of GAP? Quick check tells me only the 123.133 are the evil ones.

I'm learning this complicated receiver and got hit by the yamaha gap at the same time, and it's just rough to know what to expect to happen.
I suspect, at this point, that Rob's file is perfect, though misses an OPTION code, and I'll end up using it as is.
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Liz
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