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Upgrade wanted: Skyworth 32LBAIW LCD TV
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digital_silence



Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 252

                    
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah!

RTFM, DS! :)

I thought it would be something like that, as I already had done similar search with my other (non-JP1) remote, URC22B, but I didn't think that 8811 can do the same... Once again, RTFM...

Just did 991 search now - Nope.

And I checked the user guide for my digital cable set top box remote - it can NOT do the code search at all, pretty dumb device, actually...

Didn't have time to call Skyworth today - will do that tomorrow.
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digital_silence



Joined: 22 May 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The story continues.

After few international phonecalls to Skyworth in China (needed a translator - fortunately, have a friend who helped) they sent me a remote, but IT DOES NOT WORK, meaning that it transmits the IR signal okay (I use my web camera to check that), but the TV does not recognise and does not respond to that signal.
I suspect that their tech support guy was not very professional, as he then started to tell us the stories about different remote controls possibly needed for the different chips used in this TV even for the same model number... Well, I don't buy this.

Anyway, I am now back to square 1.

Hence, the general question: When we talk about RC protocols and device codes in this forum (like, for example, NEC1-protocol / Device 0 ) is this something specific to JP1 field, or they are used across the whole consumer electronic industry?

Where I am coming to is: If I call Skyworth and ask them: "What is the protocol and device code used in the Skyworth 32LBAIW LCD TV ?", will they understand what I am talking about, or is this completely "foreign language" to them? (excuse the pun).
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

digital_silence wrote:
When we talk about RC protocols and device codes in this forum (like, for example, NEC1-protocol / Device 0 ) is this something specific to JP1 field, or they are used across the whole consumer electronic industry?

Where I am coming to is: If I call Skyworth and ask them: "What is the protocol and device code used in the Skyworth 32LBAIW LCD TV ?", will they understand what I am talking about, or is this completely "foreign language" to them? (excuse the pun).

Sorry to say but they are generally JP1-specific terms. When we discover a new protocol the first thing we have to do is name it. In some cases it's easy, like when a big OEM brand uses their own protocols (like Panasonic, Sony, etc). In some cases, the protocol name is known (like NEC, RC5, etc), but even then we sometimes have to rename the variants (like NEC1, NEC2, etc). Next, we have to decide how to read the binary data and in some cases we get it wrong but by the time we find out it's too late to change it (like with Panasonic, Sony, etc).

So, bottom line, there's no easy way to ask them what protocol they use, at least not in a way where you would understand the answer.

However, they must have a tech dept that deals with such things and they should have a spec for the signal. If you were able to convince them to give you such a spec, which is a long shot because they often regard them as proprietary, chances are good that we could figure out how to read it.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd ask if they have a hexadecimal information on the infrared signals.

Just for the helluvit, what is that remote they sent you shooting?
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Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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digital_silence



Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 252

                    
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Rob, thanks vickyg2003.

I've found out yesterday that the tech support guy who sent us the remote, has left the company. I am inclined to give up on this.

vickyg2003, the model number of the remote they sent me is HS62A-8TG3

I will capture few signals from it tonight with my 8910 and post it here.
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digital_silence



Joined: 22 May 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the 8910 contents with some learned buttons from that HS62A-8TG3 remote control.

Just keep in mind that, as I said before, it is NOT compatible with the TV in subj.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

digital_silence, thanks for the learns. It was enough to prove my next theory to be wrong.

However, the learns were of a very poor quality. Sometimes you only caught the repeat, sometimes you didn't catch the repeat at all. That was the kind of problem I used to have doing remote-to-remote learns. I found my learns got a lot better if I had someone else press the OEM remote, the problem with that was the only person around was my DH and he hates the hobby so much that he refused to help, and then I bought my Widget, and I could tell right away if I got a bad learn or not.

I know that when I talk to you, you are usually working without an OEM remote, but if you do lots of work with OEM remotes too, I'd suggest a Widget. With a Widget you can see right away if you have a good learn or not.
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Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But in the meantime, you should learn how to learn...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3943
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digital_silence



Joined: 22 May 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks vickyg2003,

I have repeated the learning procedure (the new file is HERE) after having replaced the batteries in both remotes involved and experimenting with the optimal face-to-face distance.

There's only one potentially bad learn now. The rest suggests that the NEC1 protocol Device 254 is used. Can we work something out from that? Is this really 254 or 0,254 ?
Considering that the TV does not recognise it (and I am 100% confident that the IR hardware is working OK as I actually confirmed the good CRO signal from the IR-receiver right at the TV mainboard), are there suggested combinations of protocolls/device codes that I could try? I realise that it'll be just a guess, but your guys guesses are obviously much more "educated" than mine.

Rob, I am aware of the procedure and following it. The main variable here is the distance between the remotes, as I found that for some remotes holding them too close to each other causes a lot of bad learns - possibly due to multiple IR reflections between the remote faces.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How close did you have them when it didn't work and how close were they when it did work? I think the norm is to have them about 2-3 inches apart.

As for guessing the protocol/device code, that's close to impossible without some clues to narrow it down. First off, there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of protocols out there, and even if we assume that it uses the NEC1 protocol, there are 2 device codes, which means there are 256*256 possible combinations for that, and each of them have 256 possible OBCs.

For the one bad learn in your file, it looks like you didn't hold the source button down long enough, because you only captured the first three quarters of the signal. But that is enough to tell me that the OBC is 25.

As for the device code 254 question, we don't have any upgrades nor do we know of any UEI setup codes that use device code 254, though we do have a few setup codes that use 254 as the sub-device code. Plus, there is an upgrade for a Skyworth 1050P DVD player that use device code 0 with sub-device 254. This is equivalent to the DVD/0766 setup code.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicky's JP1 Lookup Tool shows 11 setup codes that are listed as being for Skyworth TVs. So, I have created an IR file that has mini upgrades for each of them, where the only button included is the POWER button. I have assigned the first 8 upgrades to the 8 device buttons, and I have programmed the remaining three as keymoves to the L1/2/3 buttons in AUX mode. I have also created 2 macros that test each of these buttons.

The file is here:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8808

You should load this file into your URC-8910 with your TV on, then try the M1 button to see if the TV turns off. If it doesn't, try M2. If either macro turns the TV off, it means that one of the upgrades is correct.

If the M1 macros does it, your next step is to try the POWER button in each device mode, expect for AUX.

If the M2 macro does it, put the remote in AUX mode, then test POWER, L1, L2 and L3 to see which one works.

Once you've narrowed it down, report back and we'll take it from there.
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digital_silence



Joined: 22 May 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot for this Rob.

WRT bad learn: I never release the button on the "teacher" until the "pupil" says SUCCESS (or ERROR). In that last learning case of mine, all learns including the bad one were displayed by 8910 as SUCCESS.

Optimal distance was about 3 to 4 inches. Less than 2 inches or more than 7 inches produced lots of ERRORs.

WRT device/subdevice codes: I have tried the majority (if not all) protocols for Skyworth from Look-up Tool. There's still a chance that I was doing something wrong though. Thanks for the upgrade - I will try it tonight when I get back home.

Please PLEASE don't forget that the learns were from NON-COMPATIBLE Skyworth remote - Got knows what they sent me, although the buttons suggest that it's for some TV. So, the protocol that's used by this particular RC may not be even close to what I am looking for.

BTW, an interesting observation is that:
- Google search on the TV model number brings a lot of hits (mostly Chinese)
- Google search on the RC model number still brings quite a number of hits (almost 100% are Chinese)
- Google search on both numbers together brings no hits.

To me, this proves (indirectly) that this is the wrong remote for this TV.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

digital_silence, if you are going to continue to "rescue" electronics without a remote, you should try to buy/borrow/rescue an Atlas 1056. You are more likely to find a missing code with one of these remotes, simply because they have so many more codes.

If you compare an Atlas 1056 to and 8811 you'd find
401 TV codes vs 42,
366 Video vs 74,
160 Audio vs 82,
84 Cable vs 48
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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digital_silence



Joined: 22 May 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Vicky,

1) Can you have a look at this listing for me pls?
If this is the one you suggested, I'll buy it straight away.

Also, I've read this thread, and it appears that there's no way to tell if it is learning or not. Worth asking the seller?

2) Can I use my parallel port JP1 cable with it?
Or, if I can't, is there a schematic of the compatible cable that I can make?

3) Regarding the number of standard factory codes in the devices - I think all upgrades in this site should also be added to your 401 vs 42 estimate: 401+(JP1upgradeFiles) vs 42+(JP1upgradeFiles) :-)))
Put it simple: I haven't come across a single electronic device here that I was able to control with 8811 or 8910 using their embedded codes. I had to use a custom upgrade (from this site or create my own) each time.
This makes a number of naturally supported devices more or less irrelevant to me, as long as you can load the JP1 upgrade to the RC... well, unless I misunderstood you all together.

4) Rather than calling that "rescue", I prefer the word "resurrect", because that's what I am pretty much doing - all those devices come to me as very-very "dead skunks"... :-)))
And as I said, that's a hobby not a business, so there is no pressure on me if I don't get the RC for them.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

digital_silence wrote:
Thanks Vicky,

1) Can you have a look at this listing for me pls?
If this is the one you suggested, I'll buy it straight away.

Also, I've read this thread, and it appears that there's no way to tell if it is learning or not. Worth asking the seller?

Yes this is the one that I was suggesting, but I didn't realize you were in AU, so didn't realize the shipping was going to be so high.

You already have a learner, so no reason to require a learner. Even though it probably isn't a learning remote, it still can use a learned signal, like we did with that last device you were searching for.


Quote:

2) Can I use my parallel port JP1 cable with it?
Or, if I can't, is there a schematic of the compatible cable that I can make?


This is one of our Flash remotes. So it requires a Flash cable, and I really am not a hardware person, so I don't know anything about the various interfaces. I buy them, identify pin 1 through trial and error, and take a magic marker indentify pin, and after that its just a cable that I plug in but never think about.

Quote:

3) Regarding the number of standard factory codes in the devices - I think all upgrades in this site should also be added to your 401 vs 42 estimate: 401+(JP1upgradeFiles) vs 42+(JP1upgradeFiles) Smile))
Put it simple: I haven't come across a single electronic device here that I was able to control with 8811 or 8910 using their embedded codes. I had to use a custom upgrade (from this site or create my own) each time.
This makes a number of naturally supported devices more or less irrelevant to me, as long as you can load the JP1 upgrade to the RC... well, unless I misunderstood you all together.


Remember that 991 code search that I had you do earlier. Well I was looking for something that had a larger list of upgrades that you could step through.

It doesn't have to be a JP1 remote. I was looking at this as a Resource. The cable company remotes tend to have large lists of codes. In fact a local cable company remote (local to AU that is) would probably be a better asset, than one designed of the U.S. Market.


Quote:

4) Rather than calling that "rescue", I prefer the word "resurrect", because that's what I am pretty much doing - all those devices come to me as very-very "dead skunks"... Smile))
And as I said, that's a hobby not a business, so there is no pressure on me if I don't get the RC for them.


Yes, but once you try, how do you let go! Laughing
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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