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LKP Setup, I'm stumped
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stangbat



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:37 pm    Post subject: LKP Setup, I'm stumped Reply with quote

I have an 8910 and I'm using the extender. I want to set up LKPs on my L1-L4 keys. The problem as I see it is in order to use my L1-L4 keys, I need to set up key moves since they are not normally tied to a device. But in order to use LKPs on a key, I need to set up a key move for the device. So this means two key moves on the same device for one button. I'm guessing this isn't possible and it won't work? So does this mean I can't use my L1-L4 buttons for two different uses via LKP?

I'm wanting to do the following when I have CBL selected as the device. A short keypress on L1 would issue a command for the yellow A button on my cable remote. A long key press would change to the HDMI 1 input for my TV.

Edit: I clarified what is throwing me off. Hopefully this makes more sense now.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: LKP Setup, I'm stumped Reply with quote

stangbat wrote:
I have an 8910 and I'm using the extender. I want to set up LKPs on my L1-L4 keys. The problem as I see it is in order to use my L1-L4 keys, I need to set up key moves since they are not normally tied to a device. But in order to use LKPs on a key, I need to set up a key move. So this means two key moves for one button.

No, this means you need two keymoves, but they don't have to be on the same button.

Assign your LKp to the button you are going to press, assign the yellow key, keymove, to some other button that is available when you are in CBL mode. like shift-L1 or xShift-L1 or a Phantom.


To do the TV-HDMI you might want to do a keymove onto another button in CBL mode, or you might want to have a Dev_TV, HDMI, Dev_cancel type of setup.

There are a million ways to do this.
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stangbat



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the response, and I'm sorry if I'm dense, but I'm not really following you. I've read through the extender and LKP readmes, but I guess I'm not totally getting it.

Here's the key moves I have programmed now for the L1-L4 keys:
Device: TV, Target Keys L1, L2, L3, L4, these four keys are the discrete inputs for my TV.
Device: CBL, Target Keys L1, L2, L3, L4, these four keys are the colored A, B, C, D on my cable DVR's remote.

With CBL as my selected device, I want LKP L1 to change my TV input, short KP L1 to select yellow A

I understand that to set up a LKP key move, I use protocol TV/1106 and assign it to the L1 key. I'm just not sure how I also incorporate the regular (short) key press for the same L1 key.

Again, sorry if I'm being dense and missing something simple.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stangbat wrote:
I appreciate the response, and I'm sorry if I'm dense, but I'm not really following you. I've read through the extender and LKP readmes, but I guess I'm not totally getting it.

Well join the club. I was writing extenders, and Elizabeth gave me a test file that made my head spin. When you GET IT its like a million lightbulbs going off at once. Very Happy

Quote:


Here's the key moves I have programmed now for the L1-L4 keys:
Device: TV, Target Keys L1, L2, L3, L4, these four keys are the discrete inputs for my TV.
Device: CBL, Target Keys L1, L2, L3, L4, these four keys are the colored A, B, C, D on my cable DVR's remote.

With CBL as my selected device, I want LKP L1 to change my TV input, short KP L1 to select yellow A

And so on the CBL you'll need to MOVE the A,B,C,D functions to different keys. Its easy enough to move A,B,C,D to Shift-L1, Shift-L2, Shift-L3 and Shift-L4, then you can set up your LKP's on CBL to have the short press of L1 be Shift-L1 the long keypress to do whatever you need to do to .


Quote:

I understand that to set up a LKP key move, I use protocol TV/1106 and assign it to the L1 key. I'm just not sure how I also incorporate the regular (short) key press for the same L1 key.

Again, sorry if I'm being dense and missing something simple.


As you guessed, the keymoved function can't be on the same key, it needs to be on a different key, like the SHIFTED L1 or the XSHIFTED L1 or a PHANTOM.
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stangbat



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:

And so on the CBL you'll need to MOVE the A,B,C,D functions to different keys. Its easy enough to move A,B,C,D to Shift-L1, Shift-L2, Shift-L3 and Shift-L4, then you can set up your LKP's on CBL to have the short press of L1 be Shift-L1 the long keypress to do whatever you need to do to .

As you guessed, the keymoved function can't be on the same key, it needs to be on a different key, like the SHIFTED L1 or the XSHIFTED L1 or a PHANTOM.


Okay, I think this is starting to make sense. Hopefully I'll get a chance to fiddle with this today. Thanks again for the help. But I'll warn you, I may report back seeming more dense than when I started. Surprised Very Happy
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To pile on with what vicky said, as a general rule, I set up all of my LKPs using the shift and xshift versions of the same key. So in your case, I would have:

"A" function keymoved to shift-L1;
"HDMI input" function keymoved (or built as a DSM if necessary) to xshift-L1;

Then build the LKP on L1:
Short=shift-L1
Long=xshift-L1

Voila!
Note: IF the button happens to be in the keymap for the device, you just assign the SKP function directly to the unshifted button, eliminating the shift-button keymove, and the LKP still works, since shift-cloaking makes the shift-button call in the SKP call the underlying assigned command.
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Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
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stangbat



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing some and I think I'm getting closer. Just to help clarify, I use the L1-L4 keys for the CBL, TV, RCVR, and CD devices. But I'm only wanting to have this LKP activity when I'm using the CBL device.

I've changed the CBL device key moves to shift-L1, L2, L3, L4 for all the respective instances.

If I use Capn Trips' method, I'd also need to change my TV L1-L4 key moves to be xshifts? Or leave my TV L1-L4 key moves alone since they currently are my discrete inputs for the TV?

The next steps, and I know this is really the meat of what needs to be done is what throws me. Here is what I think I need to do along with my questions:

-Set up three key separate move instances (one for each L key, 12 key moves total). Two of the instances have been detailed previously. The third set of four key moves is for the LKP behavior. This third set will use:
Target Device: CBL, Key: L1 (and L2, L3, L4 for the other respective keys)
Device Type: TV, Setup Code 1106 (the LKP protocol)
Hex code: I'm not sure. Do I enter a code to set the LKP time?

-Set up a macro for each L key (four total) I'm not totally sure what the macro would be at this point.

-Since I only want this LKP behavior to occur when CBL is the input, and I want to use the L1-L4 keys for other devices (RCVR, CD) and have the L key behavior be different, do I need to make another Phantom macro (Phantom2 in my case) to call only when CBL is selected?

I'm sorry if I'm being dense and not getting this. I really am reading the extender readme and help file, and the LKP readme. I feel like I'm close to figuring this out, but it just isn't quite making sense.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you posted your IR in the diagnosis area with a link here, I bet you'd have a bunch of different solutions.

Quote:
If I use Capn Trips' method, I'd also need to change my TV L1-L4 key moves to be xshifts? Or leave my TV L1-L4 key moves alone since they currently are my discrete inputs for the TV?


The Captain was showing you how to use how to use shift cloaking if the LKP was on a key that was in the "device keymap", but none of the L- keys are in any device keymap, so that doesn't apply to the L1-L4 keys.

Quote:
The next steps, and I know this is really the meat of what needs to be done is what throws me.

Yes your question shows how confused you are. The LKP IS a keymove that executes different keystrokes depending on how long you hold down the key. One of the questions I have is are you setting this up in IR or are you trying to setup the keymoves the old way by hand?
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stangbat



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
If you posted your IR in the diagnosis area with a link here, I bet you'd have a bunch of different solutions.

Yes your question shows how confused you are. The LKP IS a keymove that executes different keystrokes depending on how long you hold down the key. One of the questions I have is are you setting this up in IR or are you trying to setup the keymoves the old way by hand?


Here is my unmodified IR file as I'm using it now. I've done nothing to implement the LKPs in this file.

I'm trying to set this all up in IR.

Well, I did have it figured out that the LKP was a key move. That's why I said the third set of key moves was for the LKP. Hopefully I at least had that right. Wink The help files reference setting up the LKP as a key move and then say you need to make a macro for the keys. I guess that is where I'm getting confused?

Quote:
The Captain was showing you how to use how to use shift cloaking if the LKP was on a key that was in the "device keymap", but none of the L- keys are in any device keymap, so that doesn't apply to the L1-L4 keys.


Okay, that makes sense.

If I can provide anything else, let me know. I really appreciate everyone's patience.[/quote]
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at this

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8609

I would think this does what you want, however I would have stuck the LKP on the end of your device selection macros, so that With a long press of the device button, you'd get your input selected, but that's just me.
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds to me like you are trying to set up your LKPs as Keymoves. Although to the remote internally LKPs are indeed simply a type of keymove, setting up an LKP in IR or RMIR is MUCH easier. What version of IR or RMIR are you using? If you have the latest, and you have installed the extender correctly, there will be a "Special Functions" tab which makes setting up the LKP (or other Special Protocol functions, like ToadTog or Device-Specific Macro) really easy and intuitive - it is pretty much self-explanatory.
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Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc: Pioneer CLD-D704.
Amazon Firestick
tape deck: Pioneer CT 1380WR (double cassette deck)
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stangbat



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
Take a look at this

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=8609


That appears to work! Thanks! A long key press selects my TV input, short is my a, b, c, d buttons. I may take your suggestion and put the input selection on my device buttons. That won't solve all my situations, but it would take care of some of them.

I see that you shifted the CBL L1-L4 keymoves as we discussed. I actually understood that part

I see you added CBL L1-L4 and used the MISC 1106 LKP protocol. This makes sense, it is the keymoves for the LKP. I guess what was throwing me for a loop was I got hung up on the files referred to it as TV/1106 (2116ex1: MISC/1106). Big duh on my part.

It now dawned on me that I needed to download the ExtenderCodeCalc spreadsheet and use it to get the hex codes that are entered on the LKP keymoves. I'm using it, but I can't get the codes you entered. Evidently you used a duration of 41? But nothing else I enter seems to give me exactly what you have. If I use duration 4, short press of CBL, Shift-L1 and long press of TV, L1 I get: 12 12 A5 01 25.

Anyway, am I getting closer? Very Happy
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stangbata wrote:
It now dawned on me that I needed to download the ExtenderCodeCalc spreadsheet and use it to get the hex codes that are entered on the LKP keymoves. I'm using it, but I can't get the codes you entered. Evidently you used a duration of 41? But nothing else I enter seems to give me exactly what you have. If I use duration 4, short press of CBL, Shift-L1 and long press of TV, L1 I get: 12 12 A5 01 25.

Anyway, am I getting closer? Very Happy


Skip the ExtenderCodeCalc, that is obsolete and absolutely the hardest way to go about this. You just need to use the Special Protocols Tab. That being said, if you understand the ExtenderCodeCalc and all that jazz, you are halfway on the road to writing special protocols and extenders. Smile

Look at the information in IRHelp. That is more what you should be doing, but probabably is still obsolete.
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stangbat



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capn Trips wrote:
It sounds to me like you are trying to set up your LKPs as Keymoves. Although to the remote internally LKPs are indeed simply a type of keymove, setting up an LKP in IR or RMIR is MUCH easier. What version of IR or RMIR are you using? If you have the latest, and you have installed the extender correctly, there will be a "Special Functions" tab which makes setting up the LKP (or other Special Protocol functions, like ToadTog or Device-Specific Macro) really easy and intuitive - it is pretty much self-explanatory.


I'm using IR 8.03 RC2 and I'm trying to set up the LKPs with it. I don't see a "Special Functions" tab. Just General, Key Moves, Macros, Scan/Fav, Devices, Protocols, Raw Data. I've chosen my extender's RDF and everything seems to work right as far as setting up the remote.

Edit: See next post.


Last edited by stangbat on Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stangbat



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:

Skip the ExtenderCodeCalc, that is obsolete and absolutely the hardest way to go about this. You just need to use the Special Protocols Tab. That being said, if you understand the ExtenderCodeCalc and all that jazz, you are halfway on the road to writing special protocols and extenders. Smile

Look at the information in IRHelp. That is more what you should be doing, but probabably is still obsolete.


Okay, we may be getting somewhere. I now see the "Special Protocols" tab. I don't remember seeing this before. In fact, in my above reply to Captain, I named my available tabs and this was not one of them. It certainly is easier to set up if what you need is there!

I think I had the wrong extender chosen and that is why the Special Protocols tab didn't show up.

I hadn't been looking at the IR help, but after a quick skim I don't think it would have been helpful. I think some of my problem is I was trying to piece this together with information from several different sources, none of which really agreed with each other or referenced obsolete procedures. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to slam anyone or complain. Plus I didn't have the tab available that I needed. Very Happy

I should probably try and update some of the help files to take the new stuff in to account. Although my overall understanding of extenders is obviously pretty limited.


Last edited by stangbat on Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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