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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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 Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| vickyg2003 wrote: | | but I'm currently working on the 10820n where there ARE 10 real devices. |
Yes - I'm thinking I may need to get a couple of the 10820 - just the fact that it has the real device buttons and buckets I need is the kicker. |
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xnappo
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Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 861
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| jimdunn wrote: | | vickyg2003 wrote: | | but I'm currently working on the 10820n where there ARE 10 real devices. |
Yes - I'm thinking I may need to get a couple of the 10820 - just the fact that it has the real device buttons and buckets I need is the kicker. |
No backlight really just kills it for me. I don't understand why they are doing that. The LEDs can't be THAT expensive.
xnappo |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| xnappo wrote: |
No backlight really just kills it for me. I don't understand why they are doing that. The LEDs can't be THAT expensive.
xnappo |
Agreed
I actually like my LCD on the 8910 too.
It adds considerable WAF with custom mode names.
Let's just stop working out how to improve extenders and work out how to put an 8k EEPROM in an 8910 instead  |
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xnappo
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Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 861
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| jimdunn wrote: |
Let's just stop working out how to improve extenders and work out how to put an 8k EEPROM in an 8910 instead |
The LCD is nice, but they kept breaking in my household. Plus the button placement with up arrow and power is quite annoying. At least the Atlas lights the device being used... It is just weird to me that a cheap cable box remote has features that their $30 remote does not.
xnappo |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| xnappo wrote: | | Plus the button placement with up arrow and power is quite annoying. |
Yes.
In the end I only use LKPs with a blank short side for the power key now.
There was a limit to the number of times I could emotionally cope with turning off the TV because I missed the up arrow when all I wanted was to step through the Now/Next on my SAT box. I used a long delay for the LKP, because it's no hardship to hold the key in for a second or so if I'm "switching off" or "switching on" - it's something I only do at the start or end of a viewing session.
I've not had a problem with a broken LCD (touch wood) but I do find it annoying how the clear plastic inset bit at the top sometimes seems to "come up" a bit, and the device keys end up "flush" instead of protruding.
Doesn't happen on every 8910, but when it does it bugs me.
Are we off-topic enough yet ? 
Last edited by jimdunn on Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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xnappo
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Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| jimdunn wrote: | | xnappo wrote: | | Plus the button placement with up arrow and power is quite annoying. |
Yes.
In the end I only use LKPs with a blank short side for the power key now.
There was a limit to the number of times I could emotionally cope with turning off the TV because I missed the up arrow when all I wanted was to step through the Now/Next on my SAT box. I used a long delay for the LKP, because it's no hardship to hold the key in for a second or so if I'm "switching off" or "switching on" - it's something I only do at the start or end of a viewing session. |
Yep - that is what I would do as well if I were still using them. At the time my setup was to use a short press for individual device power and long for the whole system. I have since moved to a more 'Harmony' type of setup where the device keys are 'activities' with discrete ons and power is always everything discrete off. It helps that I now buy AV equipment based on the IR codes available 
Anyhow - sorry getting off topic.
xnappo |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| xnappo wrote: | | I have since moved to a more 'Harmony' type of setup where the device keys are 'activities' with discrete ons and power is always everything discrete off. |
That's exactly how I do it - except I always TOADTOG the TV on LKP power (with discrete on/off) so the LKP power works perfectly in that scenario.
| jimdunn wrote: |
Are we off-topic enough yet ? |
| xnappo wrote: |
Anyhow - sorry getting off topic.
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guess so  |
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21244
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| jimdunn wrote: | | Let's just stop working out how to improve extenders and work out how to put an 8k EEPROM in an 8910 instead |
Putting an 8k EEPROM into a URC-8910 is easy, you just remove the old one and add the new one, the problem is that the remote is not programmed to handle it, and that can't be changed (factory burned ROM chip). If the remote can't read the EEPROM, it can't load the extender, so it's not a question of writing an extender that can read the 8k EEPROM.
The JP1.x remotes don't need to read an EEPROM because the "EEPROM" memory is just a section of the main flash ROM.
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | jimdunn wrote: | | Let's just stop working out how to improve extenders and work out how to put an 8k EEPROM in an 8910 instead |
Putting an 8k EEPROM into a URC-8910 is easy, you just remove the old one and add the new one, the problem is that the remote is not programmed to handle it, and that can't be changed (factory burned ROM chip). If the remote can't read the EEPROM, it can't load the extender, so it's not a question of writing an extender that can read the 8k EEPROM.
The JP1.x remotes don't need to read an EEPROM because the "EEPROM" memory is just a section of the main flash ROM. |
Yeah - I kind of knew that. 
I was only playing - if it was possible to use a bigger EEPROM in an 8910 (et al...) I know you would have done it already - you already pushed all those JP1 remotes to the limit.
It was just a way of describing my perfect JP1.x remote - 8910++ if you like.
I just want them to release an equivalent of the 8910, but JP1.x with lots of memory.
I'm sure I'm not alone.
I'm also pretty sure that they won't - for marketing reasons -
I'm scared they woke up to the fact that if you sell $20 remotes that hackers can make behave like $200 remotes - and not only that, in an easy, free, user friendly way - it's going to impact your $200 remote sales.
Bugger. |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21244
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| jimdunn wrote: | | I'm also pretty sure that they won't - for marketing reasons - I'm scared they woke up to the fact that if you sell $20 remotes that hackers can make behave like $200 remotes - and not only that, in an easy, free, user friendly way - it's going to impact your $200 remote sales. |
Actually, the remote market doesn't work like that. You could re-package a $200 remote and put it on the store shelves with a $20 price tag and you would not reduce the number of sales of the $200 remote, because a lot of people assume a remote is only good if you pay a lot for it. That's why UEI is desperate to get into the high-end remote market (because the margins are so much better) but they've really struggled to find the right remote to do it. Back when the $400 Pronto first hit the market, they came up with the $400 "Director" (aka "Mosaic") which died at birth (and deservedly so). Of course, Harmony came along and demonstrated just what was possible with higher priced remotes. UEI's current entry into the CEDIA market is the Xsight, which can be programmed from your PC, but not using JP1.
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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I have one Harmony 520.
I bought it because it was - get this - $9.99 in my local Big W.
I hate the software - it's horrible, inflexible, needs an internet connection and won't let you save previous versions. (linux Concordance gets round this a bit - but still, meh...)
However, swmbo loves it, and it has become her remote - largely because she can see the button names on the horrible lcd.
She philosophically believes a button should "do what it says" - so ComSkip=zoom isn't working for her.
Personally, I hate it - you have to look at it to use it -if the function you want isn't on page 1 you have to page through the lcd - some buttons are "clicky" - some are "spongey" - but she loves it.
(off-off topic: it's handy as a pseudo OEM remote for devices I don't have - by downloading from logitech and relearning into a JP1 - much as alanrichey often does)
I hear what you're saying about marketing - people believe in the higher price, and I have personal experience of that being true - I also see what you're saying about UEI failing to find the higher niche market remote they'd love to sell.
I still think it's possible that they've decided not to "give so much away" on the lower price remotes. The fact that later remotes have tended to have less devices is a curious factor here. I think they're trying to focus low end sales on non technical people with a DVD/TV/VCR/SAT setup - and if you want any more than that you need a "high-end" remote.
That feels like a philosophy shift.
In the old days they loved to say - hey, our newest remote does 8 devices - now, not so much.
Are we off-topic yet |
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unclemiltie
Expert
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1795
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| jimdunn wrote: | | vickyg2003 wrote: |
I must say people have wanted 8910 extender behavior quite a bit and I don't understand it. |
Well, building on what I said above for one example:
Here are very basic, simple macros to set devices up for 3 devices:
(in practice it would probably be more complex - I call LKPs in mine, for example - but for illustration purposes this is it at its most basic level):
Atlas:
TV Key: T_TV ; P_TV ; C_TV ; M_TV ; O_TV ; V_TV
CBL Key: T_CBL ; P_CBL ; C_CBL ; M_CBL ; O_CBL ; V_TV
VCR Key: T_VCR ; P_VCR ; C_VCR ; M_VCR ; O_VCR ; V_TV
____________________________________________________________
8910
Phantom1: SET_VOL_KEYS ; SET_TRANS_KEYS ; SET_MENU_KEYS ; SET_CHAN_KEYS ; SET_OTHER_KEYS ; SET_PIP_KEYS
TV Key: DEV_TV ; Phantom1
SAT Key: DEV_SAT ; Phantom1
VCR Key: DEV_VCR ; Phantom1
___________________________________________________________
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Oh, I like this....
I must admit, I never even looked at the 8910 extender, but I think from the standpoint of writing extenders and trying to make stuff fit this is a much better arrangement.
There are a couple of other benefits (aside from the ones mentioned before) to doing this:
1: if we do figure out how to add more devices (let's leave Vicky's multiplex-keymove thingy out of the story right now) we won't run out of keycodes to do all of the HT transport stuff. This is a serious issue for a device that has more than about 9 devices, as I've explained in other places.
2: There are really only two ways to figure out if you are using one of these keycodes in the extender. most of them rely on the pseudo-device selection keycodes being a contiguous block so that easy math can be performed to see if the key is in a range. But this means that you have to find these big contiguous blocks.
The other is to build a key list and use the remote's built-in key search routine to see if the key pressed is in that list. The benefit is that you can stuff the keys into any open spot in the entire keymap if you're looking at a list. However, if the list is very large, you waste precious extender space for a key list. But if the list is small....
I see a whole new set of JP1.3 extenders coming for the Atlas, RS 15-13x, 15-100, Comcast and possibly the RCA if I can get off my ass and get working on that one.
You guys got me again... I'm gonna have to go back and look at the 8910 extender to see what it does.
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this JP1 stuff is a sickness! |
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unclemiltie
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1795
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jimdunn wrote: |
It all started when unclemiltie asked for ideas - so blame him
(/me ducks...) |
Oh there you go, giving Vicky yet another excuse to blame me for her obsession with JP1 extender writing...
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this JP1 stuff is a sickness! |
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jimdunn
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 544
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| unclemiltie wrote: |
I see a whole new set of JP1.3 extenders coming for the Atlas, RS 15-13x, 15-100, Comcast and possibly the RCA if I can get off my ass and get working on that one. |
There's really no hurry - this all comes from a thread where you asked for new ideas.
So there they are - new ideas (even if they're really old ones  ) - and whenever/if ever you have the time to implement them, then brilliant!
A dimwit like me certainly can't do it, so we rely on you and Vicky. |
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vickyg2003
Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 7073
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| unclemiltie wrote: | There are a couple of other benefits (aside from the ones mentioned before) to doing this:
1: if we do figure out how to add more devices (let's leave Vicky's multiplex-keymove thingy out of the story right now) we won't run out of keycodes to do all of the HT transport stuff. This is a serious issue for a device that has more than about 9 devices, as I've explained in other places.
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Yes I'm working on a 10 device remote right now so you can see how this effects me.
BTW "let's leave Vicky's multiplex-keymove thingy out of the story right now", lets give this a thingy a name, I'd like to call it an Advanced Multiplexing .
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You guys got me again... I'm gonna have to go back and look at the 8910 extender to see what it does. |
If you get a good handle on this can you tell me what it does in English?
I see that you are thinking the same way I am. I'm revisiting my old extenders too.
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