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RichardP
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:46 am Post subject: Key Moves from Learned Signal and a few other things |
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Hi,
I now have my JP1 cable and have successfully downloaded and modified my remote setup, created a set of macros on the shifted device keys and generally tidied things up a bit.
There are still some codes that I have had to learn as the Device codes that I have did not support these functions. What I would like to do if possible is to convert these into Key Moves. From what I understand if I want to use an extender in the future (and I would like to be able to program Macros on the Device keys) then I will not be able to use the learned signals.
From what I have read in other posts the mechanism for doing this is not for a newbie like me and I should upload the file saved from IR to the Yahoo! Groups forum so that someone can look at it. I have not done this yes as I wanted to check that it was still the preferred mechanism.
For information, this is a list of the hardware that I have, all 'Problems' have been overcome by learning except where stated :
Remote : URC-8060 (Euro Kameleon 6)
AV/Amp : Denon 3803 - Device Code used 1360
Problems :
Generally not many functions work, but some do, specifically :
No Toggle power - I had to grab this from my Sky+ remote after it was setup for the Denon, even the Denon remote does not have this.
No SAT device select key
No TV device select key
No Aux device select key
Satellite : Sky+ - Device Code 1175 and Sky - Device Code 0847
No Problems, Main Sky keys Key Moved onto shifted Sky+ keys
VCR : Panasonic NV-HS830 - Device Code 1562
No Problems
DVD : Panasonic DMR-HS2 - Device Code 0490
Problems :
The Menu button does not bring up the correct menu
There is no mechanism to switch between the HDD and DVD
CD/Minidisk : Sony MXD-D4 - Device Code 0000
Problems :
This CD/Minidisk deck has a switch on the remote to change the functions between CD and Minidisk, the 0000 code only gives CD control, Minidisk control has been 'Learned' onto the shifted keys.
TV : Sharp Aquos LC-37HV4E - Device Code 0093
Problems :
None of the Menu Control keys function correctly
Windows XP Media Centre PC - Device Code 1972 downloaded from the Internet
Problems :
This device is a VCR which I have re-mapped to a DVD and key moved all the keys, however Track Skip forwards and backwards are not included in a VCR device. Many keys for this device use bit toggles so learning the Track Skip keys is not a good solution. However loading an old version of IRBUS.SYS (after reading the post from subliminal on this topic) has enabled me to use the 'Learned' commands. I suspect that at some point this will become a problem after some XP hot fix or service pack.
The only other thing that I would find useful are the discrete ON/OFF codes for the above hardware.
Appologies for the long post, but I think that covers it!
Thanks in advance
Richard |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Key Moves from Learned Signal and a few other things |
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| RichardP wrote: |
From what I have read in other posts the mechanism for doing this is not for a newbie like me and I should upload the file saved from IR to the Yahoo! Groups forum so that someone can look at it. I have not done this yes as I wanted to check that it was still the preferred mechanism.
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It is still an approved mechanism. If you need help with learned signals, it's easier for us to understand what we see when we look at your file in IR ourselves, than it is for us to understand your description of what you saw when you looked at the same thing. ("you" is genereric in the above).
However, you shouldn't assume the learned signals tab is "not for a newbie".
Most of the time someone uses the learned signals tab, they already have a working setup code for the device and their learned signals are compatible with that setup code. In those (common, easy) cases all you need from IR's learned signals tab is the EFC number.
Clicking on a learned signal and looking at the EFC number should be easier to do yourself than to ask for help.
In slightly harder cases, you need the protocol name, device number, (maybe subdevice number), and OBC from a learned signal. You use those in KM or RM in creating an upgrade. Even those cases should be possible for a newbie (but ask for help if you need it).
There are learned signals that only an expert can read, but those are much less common than you might guess from reading this forum. Easy learned signals are barely more common than hard ones in discussions here, but must be at least twenty times more common than hard ones in typical JP1 use. I assume that means most of the easy ones are handled without needing help. |
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RichardP
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Thanks very much for that info. I've changed a couple of 'Learned' commands into key moves using that and it works fine. I'll see how far I can get before uploading the file for any final tweeks.
Richard |
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RichardP
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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OK, I think I've got as far as I can w.r.t. converting the Learned codes to Key Moves.
Here is the IR file http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/User%20Configurations/RichardP_URC-8060.txt
There are 17 commands that I can't convert, but these fall into only a few categories :
1) Denon 8303 device selection commands (5 off).
Although there is an EFC for the command when I try to use this nothing happens. Looking at the other device selection commands which were moved directly from the Denon code, they all have a * and (Use Hex). I would guess this is important but I don't know how to do anything about it.
2) Minidisk commands from the Sony CD/Minidisk player (7 off).
Again there is a common difference in these commands in that they have two EFC's for each command, I've tried both and neither work.
3) XP Media Centre (3 off)
These commands do not give EFC's at all.
4) The TV 16:9 command
Although all the other TV commands converted OK, this one won't. The only possible reason I can see is that the key name is '9' rather than '16:9' and it may be getting confused with the 9 key. However I have tried moving it to another key with no success.
5) The Denon Power toggle
As with the Device selection Denon key commands I can't get this to work. It appears to be a complex command, IR indicates that there may be a problem even though it works and I have re-learned it many times.
Any help would be appreciated,
Richard |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21237
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Richard,
I notice that you have a new protocol and a couple of upgrades in that file, are they official upgrades that you downloaded?
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| RichardP wrote: |
1) Denon 8303 device selection commands (5 off).
Although there is an EFC for the command when I try to use this nothing happens. Looking at the other device selection commands which were moved directly from the Denon code, they all have a * and (Use Hex).
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AUD/1360 is a Denon combo protocol that has both the device number and the OBC number encoded in the hex command. I believe it also uses different EFC numbers from the simple Denon protocol. The EFC numbers from the decoder are for the simple Denon protocol.
Since you need so many KeyMoves for Denon device 2, you'd save eeprom space if you created an upgrade for Denon device 2 to base those on, rather than using the built in Aud/1360. But given what you've already done, continuing to use Aud/1360 is simpler.
Either way you probably need to use KM or RM to translate the commands for you (even if you aren't using the upgrade that results).
To continue to use Aud/1360, use KM to start an upgrade for "Denon Combo (Official)" and switch the "Buttons Codes" field to say OBC. Then switch to the functions tab and type each OBC number (from the decode) into column B, and type a 2 (the device number from the decode) in column C. It will show you the correct hex command in column F, which you can use in a KeyMove. |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| RichardP wrote: |
3) XP Media Centre (3 off)
These commands do not give EFC's at all.
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I haven't had time to correct that in DecodeIR since learning that UEI has an official protocol for RC6-6-32 (Hex commands and EFCs aren't really characteristics of the decoded signal. They are characteristics of the way some protocol module generates that signal. So I don't know what EFCs to make DecodeIR generate until someone tests the protocol module for it).
I didn't look closely at your installed protocol and device upgrades, but I assume it is RC6-6-32 and one of those two is the right device number.
RC6-6-32 uses the "MSB" form of EFC number. You can use the EFC calculator in IR's tools menu: Type an OBC into the "MSB" field and it will show you the right EFC. |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| RichardP wrote: |
4) The TV 16:9 command
Although all the other TV commands converted OK, this one won't. |
TV/0093 is Sharp device number 1. But that learned signal is Sharp device 17. You can't do it as a KeyMove in TV/0093. I don't think there is any built-in setup code in the 8060 that could be used for that KeyMove.
You need to create and install an upgrade for Sharp Device 17. You don't need to define any buttons in that upgrade, nor assign it to any device key. Just use it as the setup code when defining the KeyMove for the 16:9 key. |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| RichardP wrote: |
5) The Denon Power toggle
As with the Device selection Denon key commands I can't get this to work. It appears to be a complex command, IR indicates that there may be a problem even though it works and I have re-learned it many times.
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I don't know why it would repeatedly learn that way, but I don't think it matters. I think you can treat it like all the other Denon device 2 signals and it ought to work. |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| RichardP wrote: |
2) Minidisk commands from the Sony CD/Minidisk player (7 off).
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CD/0000 combines Sony devices 17 and 12. But those decodes are for Sony device 15. So they need a different setup code.
I don't have time right now to look up whether the 8060 has a setup code for Sony device 15. You could use an upgrade as I described above for the missing Sharp signal, or maybe someone else will tell you the built in setup code.
Also, for Sony devices, it's always worthwhile to check RHMs web page for commands that might be missing from your remote but might work your device:
http://www.anycities.com/rhm5757/sony_home.htm |
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RichardP
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | Hey Richard,
I notice that you have a new protocol and a couple of upgrades in that file, are they official upgrades that you downloaded? |
Rob,
The protocol and upgrades were downloaded over the net from the UK One For All site. They were done before I got the JP1 cable so I'm not sure what it looked like before and after the upgrade. The device I downloaded was the Microsoft VCR, which has a code 1972, which is for XP MCE. I'm not sure why the 1980 one was downloaded too, but I did try several devices before I found the right one, I might try deleting it.
I guess as they came from One For All you could class them as official.
Richard |
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RichardP
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="johnsfine"] | RichardP wrote: |
To continue to use Aud/1360, use KM to start an upgrade for "Denon Combo (Official)" and switch the "Buttons Codes" field to say OBC. Then switch to the functions tab and type each OBC number (from the decode) into column B, and type a 2 (the device number from the decode) in column C. It will show you the correct hex command in column F, which you can use in a KeyMove. |
Yes, that worked for all the Denon 3803 codes (including power toggle), thanks very much! |
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RichardP
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="johnsfine"] | RichardP wrote: |
I didn't look closely at your installed protocol and device upgrades, but I assume it is RC6-6-32 and one of those two is the right device number. |
Yes, the 1972 is the correct device.
[quote="johnsfine"] | RichardP wrote: |
RC6-6-32 uses the "MSB" form of EFC number. You can use the EFC calculator in IR's tools menu: Type an OBC into the "MSB" field and it will show you the right EFC. |
Yes that worked, fantastic, is there anything this can't do!!! |
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RichardP
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| johnsfine wrote: | CD/0000 combines Sony devices 17 and 12. But those decodes are for Sony device 15. So they need a different setup code.
I don't have time right now to look up whether the 8060 has a setup code for Sony device 15. You could use an upgrade as I described above for the missing Sharp signal, or maybe someone else will tell you the built in setup code.
Also, for Sony devices, it's always worthwhile to check RHMs web page for commands that might be missing from your remote but might work your device:
http://www.anycities.com/rhm5757/sony_home.htm |
Worked again! Great! I looked on RHM's site and found that code 0490 should be for a CD device using Sony15 (at least thats how I read it). I tried this in the Kameleon but no joy. So I used the Sony12/15 protocol in KM and created an upgrade for 0490 with no key codes, the mapped the 'Learned' EFC's to that device. Works perfectly.
Thanks again. |
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RichardP
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| johnsfine wrote: | TV/0093 is Sharp device number 1. But that learned signal is Sharp device 17. You can't do it as a KeyMove in TV/0093. I don't think there is any built-in setup code in the 8060 that could be used for that KeyMove.
You need to create and install an upgrade for Sharp Device 17. You don't need to define any buttons in that upgrade, nor assign it to any device key. Just use it as the setup code when defining the KeyMove for the 16:9 key. |
I tried all the documented Sharp TV codes with the 16:9 command, none worked. So I created a Sharp upgrade using device 17 and it worked.
Now I have no 'learned' commands but 83 key moves!
Many, many thanks for your excellent help.
Richard |
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