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Custom protocol w/ Wii remote
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3FG
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you have the wrong interface type for a Comcast remote. However, there are a few old Comcast remotes which won't work with either interface type. I doubt very much that you have one of those, but for safety do a 983 blink back of the remote's signature. Use the 9XX instructions and report the results here.

If you need to buy a replacement (as opposed to returning the one you have for credit) then I recommend the purchase of the cable made by Tommy Tyler. http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9405. Besides the build quality, Tommy's cables use a serial chip made by FTDI, which is very well supported under all Windows-based operating systems, and several others.
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Tuer



Joined: 17 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 983 blink back code is 1009.

Thanks a lot for your help with this, I'm glad I didn't go barking up the wrong tree by buying more remotes.
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3FG
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1009 is the called the 1067 by Comcast. It is a JP1.2 remote.
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Tuer



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, thanks a bunch!
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cable you bought would not have worked with the 10820 or any newer remote that might have been recommended. However the older remotes that Rob linked you to would have worked with the EEProm cable that you have.
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Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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Tuer



Joined: 17 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys,

I got my new cable in and was able to use IR 8.02 to at least communicate with the remote. However, when I download from the remote, it says it can't find the matching RDF file for CS301009. I verified that the RDF path is set correctly and dug around the files section on this site with no luck. I did find some discussion on a remote by that particular ID, but it was well over my head I'm afraid. Any thoughts?
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revised Comcast RDFs
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Tuer



Joined: 17 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It works! Amazing! Thanks so much. Now on to the fun stuff.

I took a look at Vicky G's Infrared Protocol Primer. What I'm looking to do here is to map some really simple signals to a few buttons. For example, I might want something like +5000 -1000 +5000 -1000 etc (sent repeatedly) on the "1" button, +7000 -1000 +7000 -1000 etc on the "2" button, etc. The numbers themselves will obviously vary based on the frequency; I'm also not too worried about the specific values. Once I figure out how to get a sample protocol sent to the remote, a little bit of trial and error will be enough to figure out what the Wiimote can handle.

Any idea how to get started with this? In the Protocol Primer in a screenshot, there's a "Learned Signals" tab. That tab isn't showing up currently in IR.exe, so I'm guessing that I have to do some other things to get it to show.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuer wrote:
It works! Amazing! Thanks so much. Now on to the fun stuff.

I took a look at Vicky G's Infrared Protocol Primer. What I'm looking to do here is to map some really simple signals to a few buttons. For example, I might want something like +5000 -1000 +5000 -1000 etc (sent repeatedly) on the "1" button, +7000 -1000 +7000 -1000 etc on the "2" button, etc. The numbers themselves will obviously vary based on the frequency; I'm also not too worried about the specific values. Once I figure out how to get a sample protocol sent to the remote, a little bit of trial and error will be enough to figure out what the Wiimote can handle.


You have either mis-spoke here, or you have a misconception of what a frequency is. Above you've talked about the timing pairs. That is usually how functions are picked out of a protocol. The frequency refers to how many times the light flashed during your +7000 time.

I don't know if you've read about the XMP protocol, but perhaps you should read a bit, since your "simple signal" is kind of a reverse XMP. It will take quite a bit of assembly language to get this up and running.

Quote:

Any idea how to get started with this?


You might want to check out this thread
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9671&highlight=wii
It seems that the remote is blue tooth, but the lightbar is ir. I don't know what a wii is, nor how the lightbar processes numbers, but perhaps some of the wii people here can give you a hand.



Quote:

In the Protocol Primer in a screenshot, there's a "Learned Signals" tab. That tab isn't showing up currently in IR.exe, so I'm guessing that I have to do some other things to get it to show.

If you are using the Comcast remote you won't see a learning tab since there is no learning memory available and the Comcast doesn't know how to process learns.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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cauer29



Joined: 03 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
It seems that the remote is blue tooth, but the lightbar is ir. I don't know what a wii is, nor how the lightbar processes numbers, but perhaps some of the wii people here can give you a hand.


The wii remote is indeed bluetooth, but it has a small infrared camera that faces the lightbar. The lightbar is just 2 IR leds with no modulation at all. Even 2 birthday candles can substitute for the lightbar. Anyway, the wii remote processes the perceived location of the 2 IR leds and relays this via bluetooth to the Wii console, which then displays a cursor on the screen in a position roughly where the wii remote is pointing. This works best if the lightbar is just above or below the TV.

Apparently the OP is planning on using the wii remote as an IR receiver with a protocol of his own making. The wii remote would I guess relay something to a PC setup to receive the bluetooth signal. I admit I don't know much about the wii remote, but I have major doubts that the wii remote will be able to process the OOK (on/off keyed) info from an IR remote and do anything useful with it, since the mission of the wii remote is to determine where the remote is pointing by processing the apparent received locations of the 2 IR sources using it's own IR array sensor. I would guess that any on/off pulsing from an IR remote would simply be interpreted as momentary dropouts as far as the wii remote is concerned.

Then again, I admit I don't know much about the wii remote and perhaps the OP knows that what he wants to do, can be done.

A.A.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a 100% confident that you really know what you're doing as far as building a custom protocol is concerned, but as that's what you say you want to do, here's what you need.

First, you'll need to download the Protocol Builder (PB) spreadsheet program (this requires Microsoft Excel, it won't work with Open Office).

Next, you'll need to download the PB help file that gives a beginners guide to making a custom protocol.

Normally, when people use PB, they want to replicate the IR signals that their OEM remote is sending, so all the info is there already, such as the carrier frequency, the burst times, the protocol format, etc. But in your case, you're going to be making all that stuff up, so it will be interesting to see who you progress.

Do you have a basic understanding of what an IR signal actually looks like? Because, if you don't, this is going to be quite tricky for you.

Once you've created your custom protocol, the next step will be to create an upgrade that uses it. To do this, you will need the Keymap Master (KM) spreadsheet program (again, you'll need Excel). You'll need to select "Manual Settings" as the protocol and you'll need to copy/paste the protocol generated by PB into the Notes panel. However, I can't advise how to format the rest of the data in KM until I see what the protocol actually does.
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Rob
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Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
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Tuer



Joined: 17 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I should probably explain how this is supposed to work on the Wii end. I've done a lot of work programming with the Wiimotes, so I have a good grasp of their capabilities and how to get them to play nice with C#, etc.

What I'm really trying to do here is to get the TV remote to serve as a replacement for the Wii sensor bar. The Wii sensor bar transmits a continuous ON signal. The infrared camera in the Wiimote is able to determine the angle that it's seeing the signal from and do some calculation magic to do the pointing mechanic that most people are familiar with. The angle can be calculated from just one infrared source; the second source is just to expand the possible field of view.

What I need to do for my research is get the TV remote to mimic the sensor bar. This is easy enough, the Wiimote can already pick up the signal of my Comcast remote when I hold any of the buttons down (there are enough ONs to make it work). Here's the catch: I need to be able to tell between different types of signals; for example, if I'm pressing the 1 button on the remote as opposed to the 2 button, the Wiimote needs to be able to determine that. I'm going to be writing an extension of the C# wiimote libraries that'll handle all that.

Just to be clear, I won't be using this explicitly with the Wii; I'll be connecting the Wiimotes to the computer and running my own program to process the raw data. I won't be relying on the Wii system itself as that would make what I'm trying to do impossible.

The problem with the original settings for the remote is that they're pretty complex and would be difficult to write a signal processing package for. I'm also not sure that the Wiimote camera refreshes fast enough to pick up every last bit. Thus, I'd like to overwrite those original settings with some very simple signals that I can pick myself.

I hope that sheds a little light on what I had in mind. Thank you all for your patience in helping me out.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think you have what you need to move forward now? I don't think you're going to be able to create a single protocol that creates the variety of signals that you need without using some assembler, and as your remote is a JP1.2 remote, that means you'll need to use HCS08 assembler, plus you'll need some understanding of how the IR engine works.

All of that is probably too much for you to learn quickly, so you'll probably need Vicky's help with that. But for her to be able to help you, you'll need to clearly state what you want the signals to look like.

She'll need to know...
a) the carrier frequency
b) the ON and OFF times for the main pair
c) how many different pairs you need
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Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
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cauer29



Joined: 03 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuer wrote:
I guess I should probably explain how this is supposed to work on the Wii end. I've done a lot of work programming with the Wiimotes, so I have a good grasp of their capabilities and how to get them to play nice with C#, etc.

What I'm really trying to do here is to get the TV remote to serve as a replacement for the Wii sensor bar. The Wii sensor bar transmits a continuous ON signal. The infrared camera in the Wiimote is able to determine the angle that it's seeing the signal from and do some calculation magic to do the pointing mechanic that most people are familiar with. The angle can be calculated from just one infrared source; the second source is just to expand the possible field of view.

What I need to do for my research is get the TV remote to mimic the sensor bar. This is easy enough, the Wiimote can already pick up the signal of my Comcast remote when I hold any of the buttons down (there are enough ONs to make it work). Here's the catch: I need to be able to tell between different types of signals; for example, if I'm pressing the 1 button on the remote as opposed to the 2 button, the Wiimote needs to be able to determine that. I'm going to be writing an extension of the C# wiimote libraries that'll handle all that.

Just to be clear, I won't be using this explicitly with the Wii; I'll be connecting the Wiimotes to the computer and running my own program to process the raw data. I won't be relying on the Wii system itself as that would make what I'm trying to do impossible.

The problem with the original settings for the remote is that they're pretty complex and would be difficult to write a signal processing package for. I'm also not sure that the Wiimote camera refreshes fast enough to pick up every last bit. Thus, I'd like to overwrite those original settings with some very simple signals that I can pick myself.

I hope that sheds a little light on what I had in mind. Thank you all for your patience in helping me out.


One small potential fly in the ointment here, is that the wii sensor bar runs just 10ma or so continuously through the IR leds, while the average IR remote control pulses the IR led(s) at more than 1 amp. That's 100x more and I expect the remote's batteries will not last long if the transmission length is long at all. IR remotes are really designed for short bursty transmission of a carrier frequency such as 38KHz, while the wii remote likely has no concept of carrier frequency since it's using an IR array as a "video" camera. I don't know what the frame rate is of the wii remote, but you'll need to keep whatever protocol you end up using, toggling the IR signal on/off at a significantly lower rate (1/10?) if you're expecting to be able to decode anything reliably. If the wii remote can grab a frame in 1/30 second, you'd be limited to a very slow protocol indeed at 1/3 of a second on/off times

A.A.
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Tuer



Joined: 17 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cauer29 wrote:
Tuer wrote:
I guess I should probably explain how this is supposed to work on the Wii end. I've done a lot of work programming with the Wiimotes, so I have a good grasp of their capabilities and how to get them to play nice with C#, etc.

What I'm really trying to do here is to get the TV remote to serve as a replacement for the Wii sensor bar. The Wii sensor bar transmits a continuous ON signal. The infrared camera in the Wiimote is able to determine the angle that it's seeing the signal from and do some calculation magic to do the pointing mechanic that most people are familiar with. The angle can be calculated from just one infrared source; the second source is just to expand the possible field of view.

What I need to do for my research is get the TV remote to mimic the sensor bar. This is easy enough, the Wiimote can already pick up the signal of my Comcast remote when I hold any of the buttons down (there are enough ONs to make it work). Here's the catch: I need to be able to tell between different types of signals; for example, if I'm pressing the 1 button on the remote as opposed to the 2 button, the Wiimote needs to be able to determine that. I'm going to be writing an extension of the C# wiimote libraries that'll handle all that.

Just to be clear, I won't be using this explicitly with the Wii; I'll be connecting the Wiimotes to the computer and running my own program to process the raw data. I won't be relying on the Wii system itself as that would make what I'm trying to do impossible.

The problem with the original settings for the remote is that they're pretty complex and would be difficult to write a signal processing package for. I'm also not sure that the Wiimote camera refreshes fast enough to pick up every last bit. Thus, I'd like to overwrite those original settings with some very simple signals that I can pick myself.

I hope that sheds a little light on what I had in mind. Thank you all for your patience in helping me out.


One small potential fly in the ointment here, is that the wii sensor bar runs just 10ma or so continuously through the IR leds, while the average IR remote control pulses the IR led(s) at more than 1 amp. That's 100x more and I expect the remote's batteries will not last long if the transmission length is long at all. IR remotes are really designed for short bursty transmission of a carrier frequency such as 38KHz, while the wii remote likely has no concept of carrier frequency since it's using an IR array as a "video" camera. I don't know what the frame rate is of the wii remote, but you'll need to keep whatever protocol you end up using, toggling the IR signal on/off at a significantly lower rate (1/10?) if you're expecting to be able to decode anything reliably. If the wii remote can grab a frame in 1/30 second, you'd be limited to a very slow protocol indeed at 1/3 of a second on/off times

A.A.


This is a good point, thanks for pointing this out. A slow protocol such as ON for 1/3 of a second and then off for maybe 1/10 of a second would be completely feasible for my purposes. I'm also not terribly concerned about battery life as long as it could run for a reasonable amount of time (maybe 5-10 minutes of a held button press). This is supposed to be a proof-of-concept thing, so as long as it can work even for a short time, it's good enough. I do know that the sampling rate infrared camera on the Wiimote is around 100 Hz, but I wouldn't want to rely on anything higher than 30 Hz unless I absolutely had to.
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