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Shift command for URC-9910
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radunn



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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Location: Troy, NY

                    
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally completed the upgrade for the panasonic dvd-s53. Check it out, let me know how i did; it's my 1st. Again, thank to all for coaching me along Laughing couldn't have done it without you all.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=6436
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job. You can delete the shift functions. They appear to be redundant.

These are probably your missing functions:
play speed+ 203
play speed - 196
quick replay 067

These discrete codes may work as well:
discrete on 022
discrete off 026
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radunn



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
Nice job. You can delete the shift functions. They appear to be redundant.

Yep, I deleted them after discovering how the buttons work.
mdavej wrote:

These are probably your missing functions:
play speed+ 203
play speed - 196
quick replay 067

These discrete codes may work as well:
discrete on 022
discrete off 026

Enter the above advanced codes.. but to what buttons; they're all in use? Rolling Eyes
How does that discrete on/off work; not familiar?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you create an RM or KM upgrade file, you should include all functions that work, even if you don't have them assigned to physical buttons because the next person might need them.

If there are additional functions that you'd like to program to buttons, but there are none left, you can consider programming them to shifted buttons. Or, if you only intend to use them in macros (like with the discrete power buttons, for example) then program them to phantom buttons.

If the buttons are input select buttons, you could consider programming them to buttons in the device mode that needs them.

The POWER button will turn the device on if it's already off, and it will turn it off if it's already on. This is problematic for macros because macros don't know if the device is on or off. A discrete on button will only turn the unit on, and if it's already on, it will leave it on. Likewise, a discrete off button will only turn the unit off, and if it's already off, it will leave it off.
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radunn



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:

If there are additional functions that you'd like to program to buttons, but there are none left, you can consider programming them to shifted buttons. Or, if you only intend to use them in macros (like with the discrete power buttons, for example) then program them to phantom buttons.


What are the actual Phantom buttons? I'll re-read the link posted about this but it's a bit intensive.

The Robman wrote:

If the buttons are input select buttons, you could consider programming them to buttons in the device mode that needs them.

Am a tad lost here what you're implying? Embarassed

The Robman wrote:

The POWER button will turn the device on if it's already off, and it will turn it off if it's already on. This is problematic for macros because macros don't know if the device is on or off. A discrete on button will only turn the unit on, and if it's already on, it will leave it on. Likewise, a discrete off button will only turn the unit off, and if it's already off, it will leave it off.
In these situations discrete on/off = 2 buttons?

How do I quote without "xxxx wrote:?"
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

radunn wrote:
What are the actual Phantom buttons?


Each button has an internal code number. A macro is a sequence of such code numbers. Entries in the table of keymoves or learned signals are labeled by such code numbers.

But there are a few code numbers available, in each model remote, for which there are no buttons. In the rdf file we give names to some of those code numbers, so ir.exe will let you put those into macros and ir.exe (or rm or km) will let you program keymoves for them.

So a phantom button can be assigned a keymove or learned signal like a real button, but can only be used in a macro because it has no actual button you could press.

Quote:
The Robman wrote:

If the buttons are input select buttons, you could consider programming them to buttons in the device mode that needs them.

Am a tad lost here what you're implying?


That needs an example.

Say you have a TV with discrete input select commands. You also have a DVD player connected to the TV.

It is logical to put most of the commands for the TV into the remote's TV mode and put most of the commands for the DVD into the remote's DVD mode.

But our experience is it works out better for the command to the TV that selects the DVD's input on the TV to be programmed into the remote in DVD mode rather than TV mode.

Once you need a keymove anyway, there is no constraint on which functions go into which device mode other than your convenience.

Quote:
How do I quote without "xxxx wrote:?"


leave out the ="xxx" in the [quote]
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

radunn wrote:

Enter the above advanced codes.. but to what buttons; they're all in use? Rolling Eyes
How does that discrete on/off work; not familiar?

You've got all the L keys left, as well as all the shifted keys. A logical place for the play speeds would be shift-fwd and shift-rew. I'd put quick replay on shift-f.rew, and the discrete on/off on phantoms. On the other hand, I wouldn't assign functions I never use to buttons at all, since I'd never remember where I put them anyway.

You've already got 5 functions in your upgrade not assigned to any buttons already, so what's 5 more.

Someday, you might get tired of pressing a dozen buttons to watch a DVD. You'll want to write a macro to do everything. Then you'll run your macro and it will turn on your tv, dvd and stereo, and select all the right inputs, and you'll be happy. The next time you run your macro, you might already have the tv and stereo on, so your macro turns them off and turns your DVD on. Now you are angry, and are thinking to yourself that you want your macro to always turn everything on whether it on already or not, and never off. At that point, you'll delete the power commands from your macro and put those handy discrete on's in their place. Now every time you run your macro, it turns everything on like it's supposed to, and never off, and you are happy again.

Why use 2 buttons for on and off? You wouldn't of course. That's what phantoms are for. By assigning them to phantoms you can still have those discretes available for macros, where they are very useful, without wasting any real buttons.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

radunn wrote:
In these situations discrete on/off = 2 buttons?

Correct. For example, you might have three separate OBCs, like this...

OBC 1 = Power Toggle
OBC 2 = Power Discrete On
OBC 3 = Power Discrete Off

Typically, if you have all three codes available, you would assign the Power Toggle function to the real POWER button, then you would assign the two discrete to phantom buttons. Then, when you program a macro to turn on the DVD player, for example, you would include the Discrete On phantom button in the macro sequence. If you were to also program a master "power off" macro, you would include the discrete off phantom button in that macro.
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radunn



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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Location: Troy, NY

                    
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
A logical place for the play speeds would be shift-fwd and shift-rew. I'd put quick replay on shift-f.rew, and the discrete on/off on phantoms.

I think I understand, phantoms are only for discrete on/off in macros?
Quote:

Why use 2 buttons for on and off? You wouldn't of course. That's what phantoms are for. By assigning them to phantoms you can still have those discretes available for macros, where they are very useful, without wasting any real buttons.

How do you acquire the device OBC codes for on/off and are phantoms only for on/off? Still lots to learn! 'Surprised
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

radunn wrote:
are phantoms only for on/off? Still lots to learn! 'Surprised

They are for any functions that you will only need to use in macros, so discrete on/off codes are a primary example of what you might use them for, but you could also use them for discrete input codes.

I expect your next question is "what's a discrete input code?".

Do you have a TV/VCR button on your TV remote, and does it toggle between antenna mode, input 1, input 2, etc? Maybe you have an INPUT button on your stereo receiver remote that toggles between the various inputs on your stereo. Well, a discrete code is something that would put the device into a specific input mode, without needing to toggle through all the other inputs.

So, you might program a macro to fire up the DVD player that looks something like this...

steps
1) discrete on for the TV
2) discrete video1 input for the TV
3) discrete on for the stereo
4) discrete DVD input for the stereo
5) discrete on for the DVD
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Rob points out, the phantoms can be used for ANY function. In fact, phantoms themselves are frequently used for macros, and are then called from another macro as a single button. If you really want to get into programming your remote, read the extender FAQ. I had a 9910 programmed using the extender for YEARS and it was awesome - you can even make the LCD display whatever you tell it to. Unfortunately, I have run into memory ;limitations with the 9910 and have had to move on, but it is a workhorse, with amongst the most mature and well-developed advanced capabilities of any remote we deal with here.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a little premature to talk about extenders, Ray is still trying to get a handle on the basic stuff.
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radunn



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
I think it's a little premature to talk about extenders, Ray is still trying to get a handle on the basic stuff.

Precisely correct; I'm getting a handle on it though.

I'd like to utilize the phantom keys for discrete on/off for the following macros:
M1> Aux (tv) Power,CBL; Power
M2> Aux;Power;Rcvr/amp;Power;dvd;power

Are phantom keys defined (setup) via remotemaster/KM?

As mentioned earlier there are times when either device is on/off and pressing the macro key will turn the device off when I want it on; vice versa.

Will enabling discrete on/off require much macro/move memory as I only have 8 left?
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phantom keys are identical to any other keys as far as IR/RM/KM are concerned. Just drag a function onto them in RM. In IR, use them in macros/kemoves just as you would use other keys.

Discrete on/off can go on any keys, not just phantoms. In your case, since you're short on move memory, I actually wouldn't put them on phantoms, but on other keys which aren't keymoves. For example, your TV may not have PIP, so you could put discrete on and off on those buttons in RM. You could do something similar with your other devices.

The next problem is knowing the codes for discrete on/off for all your devices. You already have them in your DVD upgrade, but what about your TV and CBL upgrades. They may exist if you check a few similar upgrades in the file section. They may not exist at all. Many manufacturers don't have discretes. Dig around the file section and post back if you don't find what you need.

Once you put the discretes in your RM upgrades and paste the updated upgrades back into IR, you just use whatever keys you assigned the discrete functions to in place of power in your macros.

If you run out of move/macro memory, you'll need to delete keymoves you never use.

Lastly, you may want a third macro to turn everything in your system off, using discrete off's. Shift-Power is an intuitive place for that one, or M3, if you prefer.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are running low on keymove/macro memory, and you're not using an extender, you could consider converting some of your keymoves to learned signals.

There isn't an automated way to do this. If some of the keymoves are for buttons that exist on the original remotes, just learn the signals from the original remotes.
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