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Mad Catz HDMI Switcher/PS3
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elorimer



Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Connecticut

                    
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:27 pm    Post subject: Mad Catz HDMI Switcher/PS3 Reply with quote

I picked up one of these to go with a PS3. It is basically a 3-port HDMI switcher coupled with a little IR remote to control the DVD functions of the PS3. It also works the X-Bar with the arrow keys. Naturally I want to move its functions over to my 15-1994.

I've learned all the functions to the 15-1994; it decodes in IR.exe as Main Device 26 and subdevice 73, protocol Sony20. (Although the learning tab reports a frequency of 41237 and the timings are multiples of around 585 instead of 600.) Actually the codes as decoded all align with Sony DVD codes, except the discrete codes for selecting among the HDMI inputs. I created a RM device upgrade using the Sony20 protocol and uploaded it to the 15-1994.

The DVD transport keys work ok, as does the select key and the HDMI selection, but the arrow keys do not work. They don't work in the upgrade, and they don't work as learned. But they work in the little Mad Catz remote just fine. (It also works the circle, square, triangle and x functions.)

I tried the same process with a 15-2104 with the same result. I've tried it with the 15-2104 restored to the factory default with nothing else added. (I also tried DVD code 0533 and it didn't work--I thought it might since all the codes are on the Sony DVD pages here.) So I'm thinking maybe the Mad Catz remote and receiver are just a little off frequency, enough for some keys to get through and not others. I saw a post at RemoteCentral that Mad Catz remotes were difficult to learn, without elaboration.

Might that be the case, or might it more likely be something else?
If that is the case, could it be fixed with protocol builder?
Why do the learned arrow keys not work?
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you positive the arrow keys use the same dev/subdev as the other keys?
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elorimer



Joined: 05 Oct 2005
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Location: Connecticut

                    
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I just rechecked. This is with IR7.15 and DecodeIR2.36. The OBCs decode the same as the Sony DVD codes here: http://www.hifi-remote.com/sony/Sony_dvd.htm
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which learning technique are you using, and have you tried any others? It's possible that the OEM remote is sending a combo signal and you're only capturing part of it, and it's also possible that it's sending something different when the button is released.

So, if you've been using the standard long-hold learning technique, try the short-press technique instead (and vice versa).
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Rob
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elorimer



Joined: 05 Oct 2005
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Location: Connecticut

                    
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought there was only the press-til-recognized technique to avoid dirty learns. Regardless, I did both and got the same clean learns. But side by side the arrow keys on the little remote work but the learned arrow keys don't. Same for my upgrade.

Interestingly, the codes are the same as in DVD/0533, which will do play, pause, stop and select, but not the arrow keys or ff/rev.

Also interestingly, I rummaged out a Sony remote and it works fine--except for the arrow keys.

I've emailed Mad Catz (they're closed for the holiday) as well.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elorimer wrote:
I thought there was only the press-til-recognized technique to avoid dirty learns.

That is indeed the standard method of learning signals, and it works in 90% or more cases, but every so often there are signals where this method doesn't work. Some remotes send a different signal when the button is released, and the press-til-recognized method won't catch the "release" signal.

So, in summary, the arrow buttons on the OEM remote work, but when you learn them the learns do not work, and they decode as Sony DVD arrow buttons. Plus, the standard Sony DVD arrow buttons do not work. Correct?

Also, could you post your IR file with all the learns in it.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most likely this is a case where the original remote sends the wrong signal before sending the right signal. The buffer of the learning remote is full before the right signal starts.

The best tool to find out the real signal is CaptureIr. You can set the timeout high, if necessary, to make sure you get and decode the whole signal.

But you can probably make do with just learning. The key is intentional bad learns in which you press the original remote button before the last press of starting learning within the learning remote.

Maybe the right signal is a simple repeating signal, in which case a delay (learning after start of original) of a second or two would work just as well as the smaller perfect delay. (Press the original first and hold it while you press the last step for learning).

But maybe the signal is tricky enough that you need near the perfect delay. I think the perfect delay is likely about a third of a second. But that is hard to hit on purpose. You might be best making several tries with fraction of a second delays and compare results.

You don't need to delay so perfectly as to get a perfect working learned signal. Just close enough that we can used the learned signal figure out what a perfect signal would look like.
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elorimer



Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Connecticut

                    
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've posted my learned commands on the 15-1994 here:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=6062

There are three other keys that I could not post in the same IR file as the remote fills up. But those don't have problems so they are probably less interesting.

I learned them all over again to a cleaned out remote and this time, interestingly, I got dirty learns except for the four arrow keys. Maybe in the messy bits there is a clue.

Rob has accurately described what I'm experiencing.

I'll try Johnsfine's approach now.

Here is a file I have uploaded using Johnsfine's approach:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=6063
Some of the resulting codes are clean and some are messed up in I hope interesting ways.Confused

Many thanks.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We might be getting somewhere, the UP and LEFT learns show a 2nd part of the signal that uses device codes 26.218 with different OBCs.

The following upgrade has the right codes for the UP and LEFT buttons, and guesses for the other arrow buttons and select. Give it a try and see if at least the UP and LEFT buttons work.

Upgrade Code 0 = 07 D0 (Cable/2000) Mad Kats (KM v9.15)
DE 00 00 00 7D 38 5B 00 2A AA EA 6A 1A
End

If the work, but the RIGHT, DOWN and SELECT buttons don't do anything, try re-learning those 3 buttons using John's method until you can get a 26.218 decode to show up in IR, in order to get the correct OBCs.

If none of these buttons work either, then it's possible that the device requires a combo signal that sends both parts, which would require a special executor.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't 26.218 enough to give us the whole answer, because it lets us simply look here

http://hifi-remote.com/sony/Sony_ps2.htm

where we see all this had been investigated before.

BTW, sorry about my bad memory. I was pretty sure these were combo arrow codes we had already seen even before I wrote my earlier post. But I couldn't remember where they were documented. So I figured it was more direct to just rediscover them. But "26.218" made it trivial to find them.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did look on Rob's page for the 26.218 device codes, but I didn't see it in listed on the index page (though I do see it now, so I missed it).

Now that we know the OEM remote is sending both sets of arrow buttons, do we know whether the device requires it to be that way, or will it work just fine with the 26.218 versions of the codes?
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That part I do remember from seeing this before.

It wasn't exactly the same device receiving the arrow signals, but I think it was the same arrow signals and more similarities as well, so I think it is the same code set.

The original remote sent both arrow signals, but the device only cared about the second one.

I expect, but haven't heard directly, that there is some other device intended to be controlled by the same remote that uses only the first arrow signal. Since the original remote works fine for that other device and ordinary learning remotes work fine and the ordinary DVD code set works fine in preprogrammed remotes, no one would ask for help with the combination of this remote and that device, so we would never have noticed it sends the second signal.

IIUC, for the device in this thread, we need a combo protocol (some functions in 26.218, other functions ordinary DVD). But we don't need to duplicate any compound signals (one button sending both).
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elorimer



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. I used the Sony 12/15/20 protocol to build an upgrade with the 26.73 codes that worked and added the 26.218 arrow keys. It works perfect, and I'll upload it later.

I tried the eject and discrete power codes from the 26.218 list as well, and they didn't work, but I wasn't surprised. Also, select on the 26.218 doesn't work; it comes from the 26.73 list.

I deeply appreciate the help. I had gotten to the Sony codes page but not to the PS2 page, and in truth I don't think I could have made the leap to the second device even with that page in front of me circled in red because I was getting the 26.73 learns and never heard of one button sending two codes for the same thing. There would be no way to do this without JP1. Very Happy
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know how to build a single upgrade that contains both sets of codes, using the Combo protocol?
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Rob
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elorimer



Joined: 05 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think so. I've posted the result in the Misc section here:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=6068
I see something similar in the ir4ps3 file, too, using both subdevices. Although there the arrow keys are in the 73 subdevice rather than the 218 subdevice.
Again, many thanks.
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