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X10 Protocol OARUSB04G
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bison15



Joined: 09 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:16 pm    Post subject: X10 Protocol OARUSB04G Reply with quote

I want to create a device upgrade for x10 automation. I have the 1.04 Extender installed. I had no problem learning the codes that show the protocol to be X10 but when I try to convert them automatically I get an error message "protocol not found conversion aborted: Any help would be appreciated.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are you going the learn/convert route, rather than using one of our pre-prepared X10 upgrades?
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: X10 Protocol OARUSB04G Reply with quote

bison15 wrote:
I want to create a device upgrade for x10 automation. I have the 1.04 Extender installed. I had no problem learning the codes that show the protocol to be X10 but when I try to convert them automatically I get an error message "protocol not found conversion aborted: Any help would be appreciated.

There are two executors for slightly different variants of the X10 protocol, with PIDs 01DF and 003F. Which is used by "Convert to Device Upgrade" depends on which variant IrpTransmogrifier diagnoses the signal as. In your case I presume it selects the 01DF executor and we have no code for that for your remote. I have posted a modified version of rmProtocols.xml for you to try. This selects 003F if 01DF is not available, so it should give you a converted device upgrade for your signals. There is no guarantee that the upgrade will work, but please try it and report back. All you need to do is download the file and replace the existing rmProtocols.xml in your RMIR installation folder with this modified version.
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Graham
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bison15



Joined: 09 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still learning the navigation of this site and couldn't find the section containing the X10 upgrades.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

File Section > Device Upgrades > Home Automation
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=category&cat_id=15
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3FG
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We do know the 01DF executor for MAXQ and TI processors:
Code:
Code.MAXQ610=32 68 01 0e 92 00 94 00 2f 00 fb 00 94 00 c1 01 00 00 00 80 04 11 d1 d0 01 42 18 02 50 c1
Code.TI2541=01 04 01 21 01 0E 92 00 94 00 2F 00 FB 00 94 00 C1 01 00 00 00 80 04 11 03 02 01 42 18 02 50 C1

These can be added to protocols.ini.

Note that these executors shoot 38.46kHz rather than the 40.8kHz suggested in DecodeIR.html. Other timings are slightly different also.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@3FG and Rob

I want to add the 01DF executors that 3FG has given into RMIR, but there is a problem with this. At present the protocols with PIDs 003F and 01DF are both named X10. This is currently OK as 01DF has no executors listed. The problem is that protocols.ini cannot have two protocols with the same name and different PIDs unless they are for different processors. RMIR doesn't crash but one of them is hidden from use. With 3FG's additions there will be two X10 protocols for the MAQQ and TI processors with different PIDs.

I want to change the name of the 003F protocols from X10 to X10.n, which is its name in both DecodeIR and IrpTransmogrifier but do not know if this will cause problems for upgrades in the File Section. I thought I could test this by downloading an upgrade from

File Section > Device Upgrades > Home Automation

which Rob has pointed to, but none of the ones I have looked at have been X10. They were manual protocols with PID 00FF or similar. Rob, can you answer whether this name change will be a problem, or can you point me to some X10 upgrades I can use for testing, please?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't looked into this too deep, but I would think that we should keep 3F as "X10" as that's what it's been for decades, let's give the new one a new name.

Do both executors shoot the same signal? If so, the DecodeIR and IRS should give the same results regardless.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
I haven't looked into this too deep, but I would think that we should keep 3F as "X10" as that's what it's been for decades, let's give the new one a new name.

I don't know how many decades you mean, but I have just downloaded RMIR v1.99b from 2010 and looked at DecodeIR.html from that. It says "UEI protocol: 003F (X10.n), 01DF (X10)". So 003F has been X10.n for at least one decade and in my view it would cause immense confusion to do as you suggest.

The two executors do not send the same signal. If they did, DecodeIR would not be able to distinguish between them. The signals are related but are not identical.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't referring to what DecodeIR or IRS show, I was referring to the X10 signal itself, which we've always called X10, and I've been a prime user of it as I still have some X10 stuff in my system. I hadn't heard the term X10.n before today, and I hadn't heard of the 01DF executor before today either. The only upgrade that we have that uses 01DF is using it as an alt pid for GXB.

The main X10 upgrade that uses 003F is below, and it's been in our file section since 2004, but that's just when I copied it over from Yahoo, it was probably there since 2001, so that's 2 decades:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=259

The reason many X10 upgrades use a homemade executor, is because I designed a much simpler one than the UEI version.

Besides, if these executors shoot the same signal, wouldn't DecodeIR and IRS decode them the same, so it would be X10 regardless? What am I missing here?

My recommendation would be to use X10 for the main 003F entry, and call the 01DF entry "X10 JP2". But that's just my opinion, and as I don't think many people still use X10, I'm not going to fight for it.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following seems to work well:

[X10]
PID=01 DF
CmdParms=OBC:8
CmdTranslator=Translator()
DefaultCmd=00
Code.MAXQ610=2F 62 01 0E A1 00 A1 00 2F 00 14 01 00 00 E4 01 A1 00 00 80 04 11 D1 D0 01 02 08 22 40 30 02 18 02 50 C1
Code.TI2541=01 F5 00 21 01 0E A1 00 A1 00 2F 00 14 01 00 00 E4 01 A1 00 00 80 04 11 03 02 01 02 08 22 40 30 02 18 02 50 C1

[X10]
PID=00 3F
CmdParms=OBC:5=0
CmdTranslator=Translator(0,5,1,lsb)
DefaultCmd=80
Notes=home/0167
Code.S3C80=38 87 01 8B 11 05 05 04 07 B9 07 A5 02 3C 0D 21 00 00 17 2B 07 A5 E4 03 05 E4 03 06 60 06 CF 10 06 CF 10 03 E4 00 04 F0 04 20 10 F6 01 46 E6 29 05 E6 10 03 E6 01 02 20 12 20 13 F6 01 49 1C 1E 8D 01 4C
Code.740=0A 17 01 80 12 8C 80 08 A0 00 05 06 1D 09 AD 00 00 00 00 00 00 04 30 A5 5D 85 5F 0A 85 5D A5 5A 85 5E 82 5E E6 5C 80 07 A5 5F 85 5E 3C 06 77 22 00 A9 E3 20 DB 00 20 DB 00 A2 D7 A0 03 22 44 22 06 90 E5 60
Code.6805-C9=0A 17 01 20 12 8C 80 08 A0 00 05 05 FF 09 89 04 33 DF 06 20 02 04 30 B6 5A B7 5C 48 B7 5A B6 57 49 49 49 49 B7 5B 3C 59 20 08 B6 5C B7 5B A6 06 B7 74 CD 01 83 A6 DF CD 00 B7 CD 00 B7 A6 04 AE 83 CD 01 9F CD 01 8C 24 E1 81
Code.6805-RC16/18=0E 23 01 20 0F 05 05 04 33 DC DC 16 1D 9B 00 00 00 B3 95 DD B6 5A B7 5C 43 48 B7 5D 38 5A B6 57 49 49 49 49 B7 5B 3C_66 CD 01 AF 10_7C 14_7C 12_66 12 58 3C_67 3C_68 CC 01 B2
Code.HCS08=20 14 20 42 01 05 05 04 07 B8 07 B9 02 3B 0D 35 00 00 17 2A 07 B9 B6 60 B7 62 B7 63 33 63 38 63 38 60 B6 B3 62 B7 61 3C A9 CD FF 5F 6E 03 A9 6E 02 AC 3C 6A 3C 6B 1E A2 6E 05 A3 CD FF 5C AE 76 CC FF 65

I opened RM, selected URC-7880 and X10 and got the 01DF presented as a protocol upgrade, then I switched to URC_801x and it automatically switched to 003F with no protocol upgrade. Then I switched to the ARRX12G (the only MAXQ610 remote that I know of that has 01DF built in) and it switched back to 01DF with no problem, and gave 01DF with no protocol upgrade. None of the TI2541 remotes that I know of have 01DF installed, and the URC-7980 has 003F. So actually, with the exception of the ARRX12G, every single remote that has an X10 protocol installed, has the 003F version. Given that, do you still propose renaming the 003F version and letting the ARRX12G version get the official X10 name?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a summary of remotes that have the 003F executor (by type):

S3C8: 34
HCS08: 8
MAXQ610: 1 (ARRX12G)
TI2541: 1 (URC-7980)

And the 01DF executor:
S3C8: 2 (Xsight)
HCS08: 0
MAXQ610: 1 (ARRX12G)
TI2541: 0

So now that I've taken that deeper look, the 2 remotes that have the 01DF version (the Xsights and the ARRX12G) also have the 003F version, so they must send slightly different signals. In the ARRX12G, the standard X10 setup code, 0167, uses the 003F executor. The 01DF executor is used by setup code 2267.


which I think seals the case that the 01DF version should be given a different name.
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bison15



Joined: 09 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:25 pm    Post subject: How to import Robman's code into RRMIR Reply with quote

I'm still learning RRMIR . How do I import Robman's code for X10 into RRMIR for use with the OARUSB04G remote
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Go to the Devices tab
2, Click New (which will open RM)
3. Click Open
4. Select the X10 file that you should have already downloaded
5. If you get the "unknown remote" pop-up, just click ok
6. Go to the Buttons tab, or the Layout tab, whichever you prefer, and assign functions to buttons
7. When you're done, click OK (this will return you to RMIR)
8. You may get a pop-up giving you the chance to assign the new upgrade to a device button, select a device button and click OK if you want to, click cancel if you don't.
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Rob
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3FG
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's probably worthwhile to point out that the X10 system actually uses signals over the power line. For use with IR remotes, one can buy the IR543 module which accepts IR command and translates then into the X0 electrical protocol. The IR543 electronic module receives a particular IR protocol that we have for years referred to as X10.n, although the description of the meaning of n in DecodeIR.html is not quite right. (Actually n is just the house address.) See https://www.laser.com/dhouston/ir.html for an accurate description written I believe by Dave Houston. Basically it sends 4 bits of house code once, and then the 5 bit command at least once.

The 003F executor that sends X10.n is somewhat confusingly called X10 in protocols.ini. Probably both DecodeIR.html and protocols.ini should have referred to this IR protocol and executor as IR543 because X10 is the name of the electrical protocol. Other IR receivers exist that can be set up to translate more standard IR protocols into the electrical X10 protocol.

Still other receivers, apparently used for systems with only one X10 device to control, dispense with transmitting the house code, and only send the command part of the signal at least once. The executor that sends this is 01DF. I believe that a S3C8 executor would be easy to write--it just requires excising some of the 003F instructions

Either executor can be used to control an X10 system if it matches the expectations of the IR receiver, so in that sense they are both "X10" executors. But so is NEC or RC5 if paired with a suitable receiver.
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