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mathdon
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 Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | Would it be possible to add an option to suppress all the messages, including having it pick the first available protocol executor?
The pop-ups are...
1. IRScope allows you...
2. Protocol Chooser
3. The 7 signals of the file... |
Yes. For the next build I have made Suppress Confirmation Prompts suppress pop-ups 1 and 3, with default False as at present. Pop-up 1 is an information message that only appears when there are no notes in the ict file, to explain that notes are used as function names. Pop-up 3 lets you know the import has completed and describes the result. I think that inexperienced users will want to see both of these, and I suspect that very few users even look at the options to suppress messages, but it will be there for those such as you (but not me) that do want to do so
As for pop-up 2, I have created a new Suppress option, to suppress Import Options that will suppress it. In the end I have decided to make the default be True, so that the option needs to be turned off explicitly to get the protocol list to show. I suspect that inexperienced users would pick the first option even if they did not understand what they were selecting, so it might as well be the default, and those experts who want to see the options can turn it on. What I really did not want to do was to select the top of the list for everyone, with no choice. Having the option resolves this issue for me.
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The Robman
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Graham, that sounds perfect.
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The Robman
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Graham, I have been rethinking this and I'm wondering whether having the ict files open using RM, rather than RMIR, is the right solution. Might it not be better to have RMIR open the ICT files and treat them as learned signals, which is what they are after all.
The use case here is that a user has learned the signals from his remote and he's asking us how to create an upgrade from it. In the easy case, all the signals will use the same protocol and device codes and all of them will be good learns, but that's not always the case. In many instances, the volume buttons on the original remote are programmed to work a TV whereas the rest of the buttons are for the device in question. If the expert were looking at all the buttons decoded that would be obvious and they could elimiate the TV buttons before trying to create an upgrade, but if RM is going to try to find an executor that can work with 2 completely different protocols, I'm not sure what's going to happen.
When I'm asked to help out in such cases, I have a tool that converts ICT files into IR files, so I can open them with RMIR as it has much better tools for handling learns than IRScope, so if I could open an ICT file using RMIR that would be very useful to me.
As you've already written the current code, maybe that could be invoked when someone uses the File > Open option from RM itself, and what I'm proposing would happen when someone uses the File > Open option from RMIR.
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mathdon
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | if RM is going to try to find an executor that can work with 2 completely different protocols, I'm not sure what's going to happen. |
It will create an upgrade that covers the largest number of signals possible. If the protocol chooser in that case is not suppressed, it will show how many signals each protocol will fail on, and the one at the top (chosen by default if the chooser is suppressed) will be one with the smallest number of failures.
I don't see how to convert an ict file to learned signals, as the ict file has no button assignments. An ict file can be converted to functions in a device upgrade as functions are separate from their assignment to buttons, but that is not the case for learned signals.
Edit: If the protocol chooser is not suppressed, it will show protocols for all the signals. You can do the conversion more than once, the first time choosing the main protocol (the default one), the next time choosing the minor protocol for, say, the punched-through volume signals.
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The Robman
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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When I use my spreadsheet tool to convert an ICT file into an upgrade, I assign the learns to random buttons, as it doesn't matter which button they're assigned to, it matters more what the protocol looks like, etc. And I forget which remote I chose in the code, but it's one with a lot of learning memory.
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mathdon
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:13 am Post subject: |
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I take it that the ultimate aim is to create one or more upgrades that between them include all the signals of the ICT file. So please find me an example of an ICT file that you need to handle like this, so I can check whether the existing import is able to handle it. My belief is that there is nothing you can do by hand that cannot be handled with the existing import facilities, but without an example (or two) of the situation you are handling, I cannot be sure so would like to try it.
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The Robman
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:04 am Post subject: |
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I usually get asked to look at ICT files when the protocol is unknown, so I have a lot more work to do before I can reach the stage of creating an upgrade, so what I do is this:
1. First, I get IRScope to export in UEI format.
2. I copy/paste the data into a spreadsheet that formats it like a .IR file
3. Then I open it using RMIR and use the rounding features to decode the signals.
I could skip all those steps by just opening the ICT file using RMIR, that would save me a lot of time.
If someone else is asking me to create an upgrade using their ICT file, even with the new changes, I would still have to open it first using IRScope to assess the situation, to see what combination of protocols and device codes are in use before I would import it into RM, so having RMIR be a stepping stone would again be very useful.
As for sample ICT files, I'd have to dig through the Diagnosis Area to find them.
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mathdon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | I usually get asked to look at ICT files when the protocol is unknown |
I accept that the present facilities for importing an ICT file do not cover this case. I am thinking about it, currently along the following lines. Create an RDF for a model remote used only for this purpose, with no built-in protocols, one device and buttons numbered from 1 upwards, the number used as both name and keycode. It would support learned signals but not macros or keymoves. The signals of the ICT file would be read in to a new instance of this remote as learned signals assigned to these buttons in the order they are read in.
There may well be snags in these stream-of-consciousness thoughts. I will only do it if it turns out to be relatively simple to implement along these lines, but will give it a try.
| Quote: | | If someone else is asking me to create an upgrade using their ICT file, even with the new changes, I would still have to open it first using IRScope to assess the situation, to see what combination of protocols and device codes are in use before I would import it into RM |
Here I disagree with you. I believe you would not have to use IRScope to assess the situation, RMIR would sort out what combinations of protocols and device codes are in use, though of course you could use IRScope if you wanted to. This is why I asked for an example (or two), to make sure this is so, and if so then to persuade you of it.
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mathdon
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mathdon wrote: | | I will only do it if it turns out to be relatively simple to implement along these lines |
It was relatively simple. Please download development build 5 in the RMIR Development folder and try the following. Open RMIR. If you don't have it already checked, check the menu item "Options > Advanced > Learned Signal Timing Analysis". Then without loading any remote, select the menu item "Advanced > Import Ict as Learned". (Note that this is the Advanced menu, NOT the Options > Advanced one.) You will get a file chooser to select a .ict file and on pressing Open, it is done. It will open an instance of the (fictitious) remote "Learned Signal Importer". Move to the Learned Signals tab, press the Timing Summary button and do what you want with it.
The result can be saved as a .girr or .csv file with the Save button. I presume that if you save as a .csv file you can do further analysis with Excel if you wish. If you save as a .girr file, you can import it back into RMIR as functions of a device upgrade.
I hope this is the sort of thing you wanted. Here are some points to note. The timing data is never converted to UEI Learned Signal format. This means that if you select a signal and press Edit, the display is blank. It also means that you cannot save it as a .rmir or .ir file. The advantage is that the signals are never distorted by the need to force them into UEI format or by the limitations of that format.
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The Robman
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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I have tested it and it works perfectly, thanks Graham, that will save me a ton of time in the future.
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Rob
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The Robman
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I was just asked to look at some more A/C learns in the thread below. When I try to open the ICT file using RMIR I get the message "File ends prematurely", so I opened it using IRScope just to verify that it's good (and it is), so I added a note to the first and last learns and tried it again in RMIR. This time it opened ok but it didn't display all the learns, so the only way I could find to get the full file to open in RMIR was top open it first in IRScope and go through each of the 41 learns adding notes.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=140488#140488
Oh yeah, I have another suggestion for this, when you use the advanced menu to import an ICT file, could you have RMIR automatically switch to the Learned Signals tab?
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Rob
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mathdon
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | I opened it using IRScope just to verify that it's good (and it is) |
No it isn't. It opens in IRScope because IRScope does not do an integrity check. The fact that the accompanying spreadsheet says there are 41 signals and IRScope shows 41 signals is in fact a coincidence. You can see that because IRScope is not in fact identifying 41 signals, only 38. The last four are alternative decodes of junk data, as you can tell because they all have the same Start position (1363) in the timing list. Did you really believe that the last four signals were DirecTV, F12, Bryston and F32?
Line 3 of the file is
This means that there should be 5460 lines of timing data. There are in fact 2726 lines of timing data, so about half the file is missing. This tallies with the fact that there are actually 20 signals in the file, not the full 41. You can split the file into any number of signals by adding notes, as you did, but that does not make them real. It was not adding notes and saving the file again in IRScope that made it valid, it was just the saving. If you load it in IRScope and then save it without changing anything, the sample_count changes to 2870 (not 2726 as for some reason it adds 144 lines, all "+0", at the end). The best way to input the file into RMIR is to edit the sample_count value and set it to 2726.
Of the 20 signals, numbers 1 and 4 have length (count of durations) 214, numbers 8, 11 and 20 have length 66 and the remaining 15 have length 140. The two with length 214 split into an intro part of length 74 and a remainder of length 140 again. This suggests to me that the true signal length is 140. The intro part when present, and the signals of length 66, are a bit of a mystery. They may be junk from partial signals, but the consistency of their lengths suggests they may be real.
RMIR identifies the signals as NEC-Shirriff-32, apart from the short ones numbered 8, 11 and 20 that it does not decode. Those of length 214 show as NEC-Shirriff-32 as IrpTransmogrifier is set to ignore leading garbage, so the intro part is ignored. NEC-Shirriff-32 is an NEC signal in which the 32 data bits that are normally D,S,F,~F are treated as a single uninterpreted 32-bit value. See Help > IrpTransmogrifier Protocols for info on this.
| Quote: | | Oh yeah, I have another suggestion for this, when you use the advanced menu to import an ICT file, could you have RMIR automatically switch to the Learned Signals tab? |
Yes. It will be in the next build.
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The Robman
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I agree that the learns were a bit of a mess, and the OP admitted that he posted the wrong file, so the counts weren't going to match, but 90% of the time when I'm looking at ICT files, I'm looking at someone else's ICT file, so I have to take them as I find them.
In this case, by "good" I meant that it was good enough for IRScope to open the file and let me do something with it. If the idea is for RMIR to replace IRScope, then it would need to do the same. As for those last 4 signals that were causing the problem, I just deleted them in IRScope before I moved on.
I don't really care how either tool decodes them at the moment because it's an undocumented protocol, so until I create a (forget the name).xml entry for it, the decodes are meaningless to me. Just for the record, it's a 67 bit signal with a mid-frame burst after the 35th bit.
Btw, please let me know if it's useful when I find things like this, I only raise them to help.
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Rob
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mathdon
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | If the idea is for RMIR to replace IRScope |
Not the idea at all. The replacement for IRScope is IrScrutinizer.
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The Robman
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:44 am Post subject: |
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That program is too complicated for me to use, I tried and gave up.
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Rob
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