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Help! TCL Roku TV
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6946
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed wrote:
Sorry, Vicky. I'm getting absent-minded here.

The Home2 "function" is mapped to the DiscreteOn "button" in this version of my code. Neither the DiscreteOn (Home) "function" nor the Phantom1 "button" is used. Apologies for the confusion.

Here is, I hope, a concise summary of what I'm seeing:

When the remote is "cold"; i.e., it has been sitting idle for more than about 30 minutes, then none of the discrete on function codes I've found will turn on the TV within a macro, even when that discrete on is the only command in the macro and I hold the macro button for as much as 5 seconds. These same codes, however, will turn on the TV if they are mapped to a physical remote button and that button is pressed outside of a macro. Moreover, all other TV functions seem to behave as expected when executed from within a macro; i.e., only the "discrete on" seems to behave abnormally.


When the remote is "warm"; i.e., it has been sitting for less than 30 minutes or so, everything works fine. In particular, the same discrete on EFC that doesn't turn the TV on in a macro when the remote is "cold" will turn it on in a macro if the remote is warm.

The remote doesn't have a "warm" state where it will run better. The only kind of state that would have is low voltage, that sometimes clears up when a remote is rested. Warm remotes never improve.

If you create a test macro, the discrete on as the last key, does that turn on the device if you press that macro key and hold it? If you tap the macro button abd it doesn't work but you hold the macro button and it does work it is a duration problem. Otherwise there most likely is an error in the flow of your macros.

If not, then there is some error in your programming of those complicated macros. I'll be more interested in your 8910 where I can just load up a remote and shoot it to see what you are doing.

BTW did you know you can Keymove functions to different devices. Really helpful in uncomplicating your remote

Are your LKPs the way you usually do them????. Having to hold your key till it doesn't do anything is very unintuitive.

Did you think of separating the order that you do things, so that you don't have to have a 4 second pause in a macro? Long running macros are prone to errors.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 118
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Vicky,

Thanks again very much for your help and support. I'll un-complicate the programming and post back my findings, and, depending on what I find, seek additional assistance. I'll also report what happens with the 8910 over in the other thread.

Quote:
The remote doesn't have a "warm" state where it will run better. The only kind of state that would have is low voltage, that sometimes clears up when a remote is rested. Warm remotes never improve.


Got it. There's something strange going on here though. I'm reporting what I'm actually observing. Perhaps I've corrupted some of the remote's memory with my complicated macros, or maybe the TV itself stays "warm" for awhile after powering off.

Quote:
If you create a test macro, the discrete on as the last key, does that turn on the device if you press that macro key and hold it? If you tap the macro button abd it doesn't work but you hold the macro button and it does work it is a duration problem. Otherwise there most likely is an error in the flow of your macros.


I have created such a test macro. Regardless of how long I hold the macro key, I get no response from the TV, but, as I've said, if I put the discrete on a pressable key and press that key, outside of the macro, the TV will come on.

Quote:
BTW did you know you can Keymove functions to different devices. Really helpful in uncomplicating your remote


I don't know how to do this. Could you give me an example? I'm always interested in doing things better if I can.

Quote:
Are your LKPs the way you usually do them????. Having to hold your key till it doesn't do anything is very unintuitive.


I appreciate the feedback. I've been using them this way on this remote for at least 5 years, and I'm pretty happy with the way they work. There is a reason why I didn't switch the short- and long-press functions, but I can't remember it now. Regardless, I'm always open to better ideas, especially from an expert like yourself!

Quote:
Did you think of separating the order that you do things, so that you don't have to have a 4 second pause in a macro? Long running macros are prone to errors.


I understand completely, and I've tried all kinds of approaches to avoiding the pauses. Probably the most effective approach is to just press a key twice if it doesn't work. I may go back to that when I "un-complicate" the remote. Now that the Vizio TV is gone, I can probably get around the slowness of my Onkyo receiver by changing the order of things.

Thanks again for your help and feedback!
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 118
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again, everyone.

I managed to install my P605 upgrade on my wife's 8910 remote. The good news is that upgrading the 8910 was way easier than I thought it would be given the sorry state of my old XP computer. The bad news is that the 8910 exhibits the same strange behavior when discrete on commands are contained in macros.

The RMIR file is here: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=14762

This RMIR file is much simpler than the one I submitted earlier, so I'm hoping we'll have more luck diagnosing the problem. Here are the key points, in my opinion:

If the TV has been off for awhile, then the discrete on command contained in the macro defined on the "SAT" key does not execute, or, if it does, the TV does not respond to it.

If the TV is on and I shut it off, then immediately execute the same macro, the TV responds to the discrete as expected.

I put a discrete on that goes to the TV's "home" page on the remote button M1. If I press this button, the TV responds and comes on.

I put a different discrete on, that takes the TV to the Netflix page, on the L1 button.

I have global macros defined on M2 and M3. The one on M2 executes the discrete on (home) command. The one on M3 executes the discrete on (Netflix) command. Neither one of these will turn the TV on, regardless of how long I hold the M2 or M3 button, when the TV (or the remote?) is "cold". If the TV is on, then shut off, then both of these macros will turn it back on.

Finally, I put a global macro on the Fav button that executes a shift-power command. This always works to turn the TV on, regardless of whether it, or the remote, is "warm".

I am flummoxed by this behavior and would appreciate any help. For now, turning things on is a two macro process. Press Fav to turn on the TV and, for example, press Sat to turn on and set up everything else.

Again, I appreciate everyone's help.
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pH7_jp1



Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 452
Location: Sterling Heights, MI

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having a bit of a problem following what happens, somewhat because I'm not sure about your meaning of "warm" and "cold". Here is how I test potential discrete on and discrete off and discrete input selection commands.

I assign just the discrete on to a single button and just the discrete off to another button. With the TV off I press the ON button to verify the TV comes on. Then I press the same button a few more times to make sure it stays on. Then I press the OFF button to verify that the TV turns off, then press it a few more times to verify it stays off.

With this verified, only then will I combine these commands with others in macros. Then if the power misbehaves, it is probably some timing issue. I try to design things so that in normal use there aren't any long pauses, but in trying to debug possible timing issues I might put very long pauses between all commands. I also will often build up and test macros by adding one command at a time and test the partial macro under many starting conditions. For example, I will try with multiple devices in all combinations of initial power state. I will choose different inputs on devices using buttons on the devices and then see if my macros will finish with the correct inputs no matter the starting condition.

Hope some of that may help in your testing.
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 3573

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that turning your TV off puts it in a low power standby state (warm) for some period of time, then completely off (cold) afterward. In this low power state, it still responds to the discrete on commands you discovered but does not respond in the fully off state that occurs later. Power toggle, on the other hand, works in all states. This is why I recommended earlier that you abandon your discrete power commands and make a toadtog with the power toggle command.

As others have said, the remote itself has no such states. It always sends the same signals no matter how long it has been idle.
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 118
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again,

Thanks ph7 and mdavej for your points. I really appreciate your assitance and patience with me, as well as Vicky's patience.

I conducted another very careful test tonight, considering what each of you said above. Based on those tests, mdavej is correct. This TV responds to discretes if it's "warm", but not if it's "cold". My earlier observation that it would respond to a discrete outside a macro when cold were incorrect. Perhaps I had one too many drinks when making those observations! Smile

mdavej, I didn't see where you earlier recommended abandoning the discrete on commands, but it's clear they aren't going to work. Unfortunately, toadtogs aren't going to work for me either, since my wife and I use different remotes. Toadtogs would go out of synch immediately.

The solution I'm going to go with is the two-button approach. If the TV is off, press a button that powers it on, then when the TV comes on, press another button mapped to a macro that configures all of the devices correctly for the desired activity. If the TV is already on, just press the one button corresponding to the macro that sets up the desired activity; i.e., watch TV, Satellite, Blu-ray, etc. It's definitely clunky, but I'm pretty confident it will work better for me than toadtogs on two remotes.

I wonder if there is any way to prevent the TV from going into the "cold" state?

Again, thanks to everyone who helped me.
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Sony has a couple of different power saving modes in settings. Perhaps yours has something similar.

What if you did a short press if the TV is already on that has no power command and a long press for when its off that includes the power command, no toadtog required. You and the wife would only have to remember to hold until the tv comes on. Already on means no holding.
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bobshults



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe your TCL Roku TV has a "Auto Power Savings" mode. I suggest you try disabling this feature which is enabled by default.

From the manual:

"Auto power savings
To help you save energy, your TV can automatically turn itself off after a period of inactivity or a period
during which no signal has been detected. It is factory-configured to do both of these things, but you can
change these settings if needed.
To configure automatic power off, from the Home screen menu navigate to Settings > System > Power >
Auto power savings. In the Power settings screen, highlight the following options and press OK to turn
them on or off:
 Reduce power after 15 minutes If no video or audio activity and no user interaction occur for
15 minutes, the TV automatically turns off the screen and sound.
 Turn off after 4 hours If no video or audio activity and no user interaction occur for 4 hours,
the TV goes into standby mode."
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 118
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bob. I will look into the power savings mode settings. The manual that came with the P605 was pretty brief and I didn't see any mention of them.

I discovered something else this morning. If I point the OEM remote at the TV and press the "Netflix" button on that remote, the TV comes on and goes to the Netflix screen. I'm going to learn that signal and see if I can use it as a discrete on command. I'll report my results later today.
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 118
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm baaaaaaack! Smile

Hi all,

I learned the signal from the Netflix button on the TCL P605 OEM remote and posted the resulting RMIR file here: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=14763

I'm not sure how or if I can incorporate this code into my upgrade. I'm way over my head trying to interpret the signal. For what it's worth, here is what I noticed:

According to RMIR, the OEM Netflix button sends two OBCs to the TV, 082 and 210, which RMIR translated to EFCs 103 and 111 respectively. RMIR decoded them as NEC2 protocol, device 234, subdevice 199.

When I did my tests with the TV off using the Roku Official protocol, OBC 082 didn't do anything, and OBC 210 turned the TV on to the Netflix screen, but the TV was probably "warm" when it did that. I can recheck these if that would be helpful.

Moreover, the correspondence between OBCs and EFCs is different between the learned signal and the upgrade I'm using. I'm not sure if that is relevant, but I noticed it.

As I said in my previous post, it would be nice to incorporate this into the upgrade, since it would be a discrete on that works with the TV "cold".

As always, thanks for any help.
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6946
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed wrote:
I'm baaaaaaack! Smile
According to RMIR, the OEM Netflix button sends two OBCs to the TV, 082 and 210, which RMIR translated to EFCs 103 and 111 respectively. RMIR decoded them as NEC2 protocol, device 234, subdevice 199.



The Roku protocol is a variation of the NEC protocol. It sends 2 NEC signals.
It sends a first frame, with one OBC, then adds 128 to the OBC and to indicate it is a repeat frame and sends that frame continuously

82 + 128 is a 210. So you only found one signal.


Quote:

When I did my tests with the TV off using the Roku Official protocol, OBC 082 didn't do anything, and OBC 210 turned the TV on to the Netflix screen, but the TV was probably "warm" when it did that. I can recheck these if that would be helpful.


That would be my guess.

Quote:
The solution I'm going to go with is the two-button approach. If the TV is off, press a button that powers it on, then when the TV comes on, press another button mapped to a macro that configures all of the devices correctly for the desired activity. If the TV is already on, just press the one button corresponding to the macro that sets up the desired activity; i.e., watch TV, Satellite, Blu-ray, etc. It's definitely clunky, but I'm pretty confident it will work better for me than toadtogs on two remotes.


We can't use ToadTogs for the same reason as you, multiple remotes. We have two to 3 remotes per venue, and we have lots of venues. Typically we watch TV, so we press TV Power, and then Press and hold the input (TV, CBL, BL-Ray, DVD, Roku...) and that turns on the AVR, and selects inputs on the TV and RCV) My husband lets go when his picture is up and he can hear the show. Your wife might like that as well. Not a lot of things to remember.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 118
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Vicky.

Your approach sounds similar to mine; i.e., turn the TV on and then press the "activity" button. I've mapped these to buttons on the remote that I'm hoping my wife will remember. She's not spending any time thinking about this now, because we have one of our granddaughters over. That occupies all of her time, and much of mine.

My next step is to try OBC 210 as a discrete on in my macros. What I thought was most interesting this morning is that, after the TV was off all night, at least 8 hours, pressing that button on the OEM remote turned it on. Should I expect OBC 210 in my upgrade to behave the same way, or should I just stop hoping for a discrete?
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 118
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies for being so persistent with this. I just can't let go.

I placed OBC 210 on a pressable remote button and let the TV go "cold". I pointed the remote at the TV and pressed that button. Nothing happened.

Then, I picked up the OEM remote, pointed it to the TV, and pressed the "Netflix" button on it (the button corresponding to the learned signal above). The TV came on to the Netflix page.

This tells me that the button on the OEM remote is sending something different to the TV than what is being sent using OBC 210 with my RCRP05B from within the Roku TV protocol. It also makes me think that, even if the TV is going "cold", something in the OEM remote's signal is getting through to it.

Is there some way to figure out how to get whatever signal is being sent by the OEM remote into my RCR (and 8910) remotes?

Again, apologies for not letting go. Thanks again very much for any help.
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mdavej
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You already learned the IR command in question. It's possible the OEM is also sending RF or bluetooth. If it is, there's nothing you can do to duplicate it on your JP1 remotes.
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Ed



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 118
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You already learned the IR command in question. It's possible the OEM is also sending RF or bluetooth. If it is, there's nothing you can do to duplicate it on your JP1 remotes.


The OEM is sending IR. I was confused by the learning results when it looked like it was sending two commands, OBC 082 and OBC 210. When I tried OBC 210 and it failed to turn on the TV when it was cold (it did when the TV was warm), I knew the OEM was sending something different from that to the TV, but it was IR, according to RMIR, so it was a matter of finding out what would work.

I used RMIR to convert the learned signal to an upgrade. It created an upgrade using NEC2, device 234, subdevice 199, OBC 082 for the Discrete On (Netflix) function. I added that device to my remote and put a key move on my TV device to send that command when a certain button was pressed. I also placed that key within a macro. The TV came on to the Netflix page when cold using the button and from within a macro. I now have a discrete on.

Feeling confident, I used OBC 082 from within the Roku Official protocol and it worked exactly the same way. I must have missed that OBC when I conducted my "exhaustive" search.

I really would like to have a discrete on that sent the TV to the home page, so I'm going to fiddle around some more to see if I can find one. I actually found 10 in my previous search that turned the TV on and went to the home page, but I only picked one or two to try from within my macros, and the two I chose simply didn't work when the TV is cold. I suspect there is at least one that will work; I just need to find it.

So, from my amateur perspective, the difficulty with this TV stemmed from the apparent fact that the TV responds to IR commands differently when it is "warm" than when it's "cold". That makes it a very slow and error-prone process to find a discrete on that works when it's cold. You have to wait at least 15 minutes after you've shut the TV off to test if a code will work code.

I will package up an upgrade for the collective after I do some more testing.

Thanks for you support.
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