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HamburgerHelper1



Joined: 22 Feb 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Dumb Question Reply with quote

Still playing with RDF
So I make a Macro of 1234567890 and do a raw download
My output is 06A0: 17 D1 27 FB 29 9F 0A 16 17 19 1A 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F
So for keymap how do i interpret the address for # 0-9
I know this is a dumb question on how to read a raw download but I want to learn
Background info I may be rusty but I did hex and assembly language
On my 1st Times sinclair computer the old Z80 So I was hoping I could learn a thing or two here
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ElizabethD
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Joined: 09 Feb 2004
Posts: 2269

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know what RDF you're reading. But it appears that at 06a7 you see button numbers for 1-9. See [Buttons] section in your RDF.
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Tweeking 8910, HTPro/9811, C7-7800, 6131o, 6131n, AtlasOCAP-1056B01, RCA-RCRP05B and enjoying the ride Smile
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 17669
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're making this harder than it needs to be. If I remember correctly, you have a remote that shares a signature with an existing remote, which means you already have an RDF that is 90% right for your remote, all that is wrong is that some of the buttons may have the wrong name (though I expect that most of them will be correct). So, what you need to do is download from the remote using RMIR and then look at the macros in the Macro tab, then compare the button names that appear with the list of actual buttons that you pressed.

You should save a new copy of the RDF with your remote's name in it, then when you spot names that are wrong in the macros, correct the name in the new RDF.
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unclemiltie
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1684
Location: San Ramon, CA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a JP1.3 remote the format of a Macro is:

byte: bound key
byte: macro flag bit, usually $80
byte: length of macro (not including first two bytes)
bytes: keys

So for example, the default macro in the JP1.3 extender for the TV device is:

$09 - TV Key
$80 - Macro Flag
$07 - length
$71 - Dev_TV
$7C - Set_Trans
$7B - Set_Vol
$7A - Set_Chan
$7D - Set_PIP
$7E - Set_Menu
$7F - Set_Other


The format for a key move is

Byte: Bound Key
Byte: Keymove flag bit in upper nibble ($10), device index in lower nibble
Byte: Length (either $04 or $03), again without first two bytes
Word: Device setup code
Byte: Key value if a key-type key move ($03 length)
Word : hex value if a value-type key move ($04)

The special protocols are stored as key moves and are longer since they have more information in them.


For example, the key move to activate the JP1.3 extender is:

Byte: $2D (OK Key)
Byte: $11 (keymove, TV device)
Byte: $04 (length)
Word: $1708 - setup code for TV/1800
Word: $0000- first byte flag to activate/deactivate ($00, $01)


there are other formats for other kinds of things stored but these are the two big ones.

the JP2 remotes with "segments" are entirely different than this.
The JP1 remotes before the new gen 6131 were similar but slightly different
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HamburgerHelper1



Joined: 22 Feb 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Playing with RDF Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips I always thought the Robman was right but I was getting weird results
in that the arrow keys and other keys did nothing at all.
I realized what I think is my mistake on looking at this.
I was doing it with an upgrade that I had installed and on my way home from work it hit me
that i should delete my upgrades and read the remote from what it has built in it for codes
then look at the raw download,I have to have a working remote / rdf 1st before I install an upgrade
Does that sound about right?
If this is correct then I should only have to change the button names like
The Robman said
On a side-note I have an off brand atlas that would not download in RMIR did 980/981
and it now works perfectly
Once again thanks for the tips
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unclemiltie
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
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Location: San Ramon, CA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said before in another thread I've yet to see a JP1.3 remote that is anything more than relabeled buttons (in the exact same spot) if the signature is the same.

So if you're downloading a 30333033 remote then you can look at the 30333033 RDF and the map/image, figure out which buttons have different labels on it and then edit the "buttons" section of the RDF. If the device buttons have different names on it you'd also have to change the device section where the setup codes are saved.

Everything else will be exactly the same as any other remote with the same signature.
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Last edited by unclemiltie on Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HamburgerHelper1



Joined: 22 Feb 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: RDF Reply with quote

Yup I have a better understanding now thanks
I just tried a macro so when i have more time to concentrate I will work on it
at least i understand more now so we will see what I come up with.
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6562
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought at one time that mathdon posted another 9xx command or was it a special key sequence after battery insertion that let you blink back the button codes for quicker development. I know I tried it out on one of my remotes. I looked in the wiki and couldn't find it. Anybody happen to remember that?

Edit:
Found the post
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=105910#105910

It was a widget trick.

mathdon wrote:

For anyone with a Widget, there is probably an easier way to find the button numbers for these remotes. Take out a battery, wait a minute or so, reinsert the battery and then quickly (within about 5 seconds) press buttons 1 and 3 together. Don't hold one down then press the other, they both need to be pressed, as far as possible, simultaneously. An LED should flash 4 times. The remote has now entered Test Mode. In this mode, every button (including special ones like device buttons) sends an NEC1 signal in which the OBC is one less than the button number. So with a Widget you can just read off the button numbers one by one. Test Mode times out after a period of about 30 seconds with no button pressed.

I only know this for certain on the Atlas 1056B03, but Test Mode exists (though the two buttons you have to press are different, see this post) on my entirely different URC-7781. I suspect all UEI remotes have this mode, though the way to enter it may vary slightly. I would be surprised if it were not the same way, though, on all Atlas remotes and similar clones.

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Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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HamburgerHelper1



Joined: 22 Feb 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: RDF Reply with quote

Thanks vickyg2003 great info I get the 4 blinks on my Manawa Telecom Video Branded
urc-4mxxxbj10-r
I do not have time right now to fully test it though but will in the future.
I use one of my other learning remotes instead of a widget
But I have been making progress renaming buttons in the RDF
and so far preliminary test's are all good
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
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Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Widget is a handy tool to have if you get totally immersed in this hobby. It is especially helpful when you write protocol executors. Even inexploration it like this it is helpful.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 17669
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Test Mode is a great tool to have if you are trying to document a completely new remote, but in this case, you have a remote that we have already documented, it's just in a different shell which means that some of the button names might be different. But having said that, I totally expect the standard buttons (ie, 0-9, volume +/-, ch +/-, rew, fwd, etc, etc) to be correct, the only differences (if any) will come in the non-standard buttons.

So, using the macro approach will be by far the quickest way to verify if the button names in the existing RDF are correct. I would be surprised if the whole process takes more than 5-10 minutes.
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mathdon
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 2614
Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
mathdon wrote:

For anyone with a Widget, there is probably an easier way to find the button numbers for these remotes. Take out a battery, wait a minute or so, reinsert the battery and then quickly (within about 5 seconds) press buttons 1 and 3 together. Don't hold one down then press the other, they both need to be pressed, as far as possible, simultaneously. An LED should flash 4 times. The remote has now entered Test Mode. In this mode, every button (including special ones like device buttons) sends an NEC1 signal in which the OBC is one less than the button number. So with a Widget you can just read off the button numbers one by one. Test Mode times out after a period of about 30 seconds with no button pressed.

I only know this for certain on the Atlas 1056B03, but Test Mode exists (though the two buttons you have to press are different, see this post) on my entirely different URC-7781. I suspect all UEI remotes have this mode, though the way to enter it may vary slightly. I would be surprised if it were not the same way, though, on all Atlas remotes and similar clones.

In case anyone is interested, there is one other remote I know about. In the URC-6440 and presumably also the OARUSB04G and related remotes, the pair of buttons you need to press to enter Test Mode after reinserting batteries are Power and Pause.
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vickyg2003
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Joined: 20 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder where we could put the test mode information where I can find it the next time.

I also wonder if hamberger's remote had an alternate keyboard situation. Those early remotes had key scrambling. It seems to me that all the numbers get scrambled if a flag in the E2 area was clobberred by doing a file new.
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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unclemiltie
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1684
Location: San Ramon, CA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC the "scrambling" mode didn't change the key values, it changed the signal that got sent by the keypress to prevent others from learning the signals stored in the remote.
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HamburgerHelper1



Joined: 22 Feb 2014
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: RDF Reply with quote

Funny you should mention numbers getting scrambled
The numbers all worked and i only renamed a few keys in the rdf
Menu, last ch and maybe the arrow keys
I then read about the test mode and tried it just to see if it would work
After that the number keys no longer worked its as if it was still in test mode
I restored it with a backup and everything is back as it was.
Also since I have several of these i took 2 of them apart
On had processor u803B3F80JB85 1 or a T
the other one was the same except it was 3C80
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