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URC-8210 rdf problem
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regne v



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 50
Location: Spain

                    
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: URC-8210 rdf problem Reply with quote

I've been translating several upgrades I've made from a URC-8060 (JP1 based) to a URC-8210 (JP1.x based) and I'm having LOTS of problems with an upgrade for a Philips TDT receiver.

As there is no URC-8210 "official" rdf I used the one from gertc.

I got an official upgrade from OFA site and it works OK. It's this:

Quote:
Upgrade Code 0 = 05 DB (SAT/1499) (RM v1.86)
58 00 FE FE FE 80 47 95 30 59 6A 00 01 02 03 04
05 06 07 08 09 10 11 0D 20 21 0C 54 58 59 5A 5B
5C CB 43 81 CC 84 6D 6E 6F 70 3C F5 55 75 0A 4E
End


I just wanted to remap some buttons so I learned all the IR codes, built a new upgrade, uploaded to the remote and it didn't work at all.

This was the output from RM:

Quote:
Upgrade Code 0 = 07 D2 (SAT/2002) Philips DTR-220 (RM v1.86)
58 08 64 7C C2 FC 10 04 26 21 80 27 10 11 0D 20
21 0C 6D 6E 70 6F 55 B0 54 CC CB 84 58 59 5A 5B
75 4B 5C 4E 3C 0A
End


I found that some of the keys in the gertc file weren't correctly mapped, they are:
    PVR = $54
    Info = $26
    Back = $66
    Preset = $68
    Timer = $71
    Random = $72
    sp/lp = $69
    Rear+ = $6d
    Surround = $7e
    Eject = $67


So I edited gertc rdf file, modified the [Buttons] and [ButtonMaps] sections but still nothing. When you press the buttons of the device they behave stranqely or don't send a signal at all.

I've posted a file with both rdfs and a download of the remote with both upgrades and the recorded keys.

Am I missing something?.

Thanks a lot.
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unclemiltie
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The [Buttons] section defines the hex values for all of the buttons, ie: when you push the Vol+ button, the remote interprets this as hex $04. If those are wrong then the upgrades will do weird things, likely that they will have the wrong functions on the wrong buttons since RM thinks that it's putting a command on key $04 that is Vol+ but that key is really Ch+ on the remote.

The [buttonmaps] section you really should not change unless you are an expert. This information is stored in the remote and is used by RM to decide in which order to put the commands.


So, I'd try putting the buttonmaps section back the way it was and leaving your changes on the buttons and see what happens.

The other thing you can do is reverse engineer the upgrade that you know works since you know the function values, you can see what order they went in on the upgrade . If you can identify the hex codes for the functions that you know are in the upgrade, you can then back-check to see if the button map for the SAT device type is correct.
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regne v



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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Location: Spain

                    
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unclemiltie wrote:
The [Buttons] section defines the hex values for all of the buttons, ie: when you push the Vol+ button, the remote interprets this as hex $04. If those are wrong then the upgrades will do weird things, likely that they will have the wrong functions on the wrong buttons since RM thinks that it's putting a command on key $04 that is Vol+ but that key is really Ch+ on the remote.

Yes, that's why I edited it, to reflect the right codes for any key.
unclemiltie wrote:
The [buttonmaps] section you really should not change unless you are an expert. This information is stored in the remote and is used by RM to decide in which order to put the commands.

Shouldn't I?. I change the codes here because I thought that they should match the ones I had changed in [buttons].
unclemiltie wrote:
So, I'd try putting the buttonmaps section back the way it was and leaving your changes on the buttons and see what happens.

Sorry... it still doesn't work.
unclemiltie wrote:

The other thing you can do is reverse engineer the upgrade...

Eeeem... I posted in the "beginners" forum deliberately. Wink


Last edited by regne v on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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regne v



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: One more thing... Reply with quote

... I also did try to post the official code in RM to a URC-8206 and the distribution of keys was very good.

However if you paste the code with any of the rdfs for the URC-8210 the distribution of keys is a complete mess.
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unclemiltie
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok. let's try to reverse engineer this thing for you (and to help you understand the anatomy of an upgrade)

The first thing you need to do is understand what function hex values are what. So, for example, in the UEI upgrade you have:


Quote:

Upgrade Code 0 = 05 DB (SAT/1499) (RM v1.86)
58 00 FE FE FE 80 47 95 30 59 6A 00 01 02 03 04
05 06 07 08 09 10 11 0D 20 21 0C 54 58 59 5A 5B
5C CB 43 81 CC 84 6D 6E 6F 70 3C F5 55 75 0A 4E
End


let's ignore the first few bytes for a minute, we'll get back to them. starting with the 95 and after that, can you tell me from a learn or something which functions these are? For example, $95 power, $30 = channel up, etc. ($95 may not be anything, it could be something else BTW, so don't get nervous!)

Once you know this, you then know the order in which the keys are in the upgrade. This is the order in the "button maps" section. Write these keys down in the order that they are in.

Next we have to look at the $FE...$47 string, that tells you which keys are IN the upgrade. Each key in the sequence has a bit in the string, if the last bit is 0, then that means that there is another bitmap. if the last bit is 1, that's the last one. So $FE = 1111 1110 $80 = 1000 0000 and $47 = 0100 0111. lay this out with the hex values that you just wrote down so that you know the areas where there are gaps (0's)

Then, once you're done with this, you should be able to check that list against the [buttonmaps] section to see it it matches. If it matches, then you're in good shape. If it doesn't, you're going to have to wait for an expert to get their hands on one of tehse things to figure it out since you really need the remote in hand to make this stuff happen.


-bill
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regne v



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 50
Location: Spain

                    
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unclemiltie wrote:
ok. let's try to reverse engineer this thing for you (and to help you understand the anatomy of an upgrade)

Mmmm... thanks a lot.

Quote:

let's ignore the first few bytes for a minute, we'll get back to them. starting with the 95 and after that, can you tell me from a learn or something which functions these are? For example, $95 power, $30 = channel up, etc. ($95 may not be anything, it could be something else BTW, so don't get nervous!)

I see:

    95 = ?
    30 = ?
    59 = down arrow? Repeated down?.
    6A = ?
    00 = 0
    01 = 1
    02 = 2
    03 = 3
    04 = 4
    05 = 5
    06 = 6
    07 = 7
    08 = 8
    09 = 9
    10 = vol up
    11 = vol down
    0D = mute
    20 = channel up
    21 = channel down
    0C = power
    54 = menu
    58 = up arrow
    59 = down arrow
    5A = left arrow
    5B = right arrow
    5C = select
    CB = info
    43 = ?
    81 = ?
    CC = guide/eqg
    84 = list/fav
    6D = red
    6E = green
    6F = yellow
    70 = blue
    3C = txt-on
    F5 = ?
    55 = exit
    75 = timer
    0A = back
    4E = -/--

Impressive. That makes 34 keys from the 36 that the original remote has. The subtitles (0x4b) and radio (0xb0) are the only missing.

Quote:

Once you know this, you then know the order in which the keys are in the upgrade. This is the order in the "button maps" section. Write these keys down in the order that they are in.

It's a bit late here in Spain so I'll have to check this tomorrow, but I can't understand this:
Quote:

So $FE = 1111 1110 $80 = 1000 0000 and $47 = 0100 0111. lay this out with the hex values that you just wrote down so that you know the areas where there are gaps (0's)

I guess that the 1s and 0s mark the presence or not of a key, but I don't see the "lay this out with the hex values" you're saying.

Quote:

you should be able to check that list against the [buttonmaps] section to see it it matches

Again, that will have to wait until tomorrow.

¿Is there any guide with this info?. The only thing I could find is the rdfspec.doc that comes with IR.exe and it is really confusing for newbie... well... I have to say I'm a newbie in this jp1 thing but in fact I've dealt a lot of times with this kind of things.

Oh, and thanks a lot for your time.
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Upgrade Code 0 = 05 DB (SAT/1499) (RM v1.86)
58 00 FE FE FE 80 47 95 30 59 6A 00 01 02 03 04
05 06 07 08 09 10 11 0D 20 21 0C 54 58 59 5A 5B
5C CB 43 81 CC 84 6D 6E 6F 70 3C F5 55 75 0A 4E
End
Using the URC-8206 RDF and RM's Import Raw Upgrade, I come up with:

95 30 59 6A = Fixed Data for the RC-6 protocol (pid 0058).
00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 = 0-9 buttons.
10 11 0D = Vol+, Vol-, Mute
20 21 = Ch+, Ch-
0C = power
54 = menu
58 = up
59 = down
5A = left
5B = right
5C = OK
CB = info
43 = TV/SAT
81 = back\txt-expand
CC = guide
84 = fav
6D = red
6E = green
6F = yellow
70 = blue
3C = txt-on
F5 = subt
55 = exit
75 = rec
0A = pp
4E = audio

My guess is the the 8210 RDF isn't ready for primetime yet.
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binky123
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should update the RDF [Protocols] section to be 0058:2. Also, I noticed this remote has an alternate keymap so the [Settings] section should have an additional line at KeyMap=$01F.5.1.0.0 (Standard;Alternate).

The whole [Protocols] section does not have any variants so in general it needs to be updated.
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regne v



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Pierson wrote:
My guess is the the 8210 RDF isn't ready for primetime yet.

I'm trying it'll be.

I've found this guide about upgrades by Rob and I'm studing it thorughly.
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're probably wasting your time on upgrades until the RDF is fixed. First make binky's corrections, then make sure Alternate keymap is NOT selected in IR on the General Tab and re-upload.

If the buttons are still wrong, you need to fix them in the RDF. At this point, the easiest approach would probably be to create some macros on the remote (not in IR) that use every key, noting which keys you pressed. Then you can download and look at the macros in IR and see how they match up with what you entered manually. Then you'll see what buttons are mixed up and can correct the RDF file accordingly.

Even after all that, the RDF still won't be right until the Protocols section is corrected, which you won't be able to do on your own.
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mr_d_p_gumby
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

binky123 wrote:
The whole [Protocols] section does not have any variants so in general it needs to be updated.
Here is the updated [Protocols] section:
Code:
[Protocols]
0000, 0002:5, 0006, 000B, 000D, 0010, 0011, 0013, 0014, 0018, 001A,
001C, 001D, 001F:8, 0020:2, 0022, 0027:new, 002A, 002C, 0034, 003D,
003F, 0045, 0046, 004A, 004B:7, 0051, 0058:2, 005A, 005B, 005C,
005D, 005E:2, 005F, 0064, 0065:2, 0066, 0068, 006A, 006C, 0073,
0075, 007E:3, 0082, 0087, 008C, 008E, 0095, 0098:2, 009C, 009E,
00A1, 00A5, 00A6, 00A8, 00AA, 00AB, 00AF, 00B0, 00B2, 00B6, 00B9,
00BD, 00C4, 00C9, 00CA, 00CC, 00CD:2, 00D1, 00D5, 00DE, 00E2, 00E5,
00E8, 00EB, 00ED, 00EF, 00F0, 00F3, 00F4, 00F8:3, 0108, 0109, 0111,
0112, 0114:2, 011A, 011B, 011E, 0125, 012A:2, 012B, 015E, 0160,
0161, 016A, 016C, 0173:1, 0176, 017E, 0182:2, 018C

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regne v



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 50
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr_d_p_gumby wrote:
Here is the updated [Protocols] section:
Code:
[Protocols]
0000, 0002:5, 0006, 000B, 000D, 0010, 0011, 0013, 0014, 0018, 001A,
001C, 001D, 001F:8, 0020:2, 0022, 0027:new, 002A, 002C, 0034, 003D,
003F, 0045, 0046, 004A, 004B:7, 0051, 0058:2, 005A, 005B, 005C,
005D, 005E:2, 005F, 0064, 0065:2, 0066, 0068, 006A, 006C, 0073,
0075, 007E:3, 0082, 0087, 008C, 008E, 0095, 0098:2, 009C, 009E,
00A1, 00A5, 00A6, 00A8, 00AA, 00AB, 00AF, 00B0, 00B2, 00B6, 00B9,
00BD, 00C4, 00C9, 00CA, 00CC, 00CD:2, 00D1, 00D5, 00DE, 00E2, 00E5,
00E8, 00EB, 00ED, 00EF, 00F0, 00F3, 00F4, 00F8:3, 0108, 0109, 0111,
0112, 0114:2, 011A, 011B, 011E, 0125, 012A:2, 012B, 015E, 0160,
0161, 016A, 016C, 0173:1, 0176, 017E, 0182:2, 018C


I've been testing a new rdf that binky passed me out. There are a few differences between your protocols section and binky's.They are:

Code:
Binky's    mr_d_p_gumby's
0020        0020:2
004B        004B:7
0098        0098:2
011A:2      011A
0173        0173:1


I suppose binky will show up over here to check your dissasembly.
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binky123
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike. I've updated my RDF as well as the RDF in gertc's zipfile to include your [Protocols] section. Thanks to regne for validating the [Buttons] section.
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mr_d_p_gumby
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

regne v wrote:
Code:
Binky's    mr_d_p_gumby's
0020        0020:2
004B        004B:7
0098        0098:2
011A:2      011A
0173        0173:1
It does appear that I mis-validated 011A. I re-checked it and it should be variant 2 (011A:2).
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regne v



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

binky123 wrote:
Thanks Mike. I've updated my RDF as well as the RDF in gertc's zipfile to include your [Protocols] section. Thanks to regne for validating the [Buttons] section.

Just in case someone needs them this is Binky's rdf, and this is gertc's file with rdf, maps and images.

However...
mr_d_p_gumby wrote:
regne v wrote:
Code:
Binky's    mr_d_p_gumby's
0020        0020:2
004B        004B:7
0098        0098:2
011A:2      011A
0173        0173:1
It does appear that I mis-validated 011A. I re-checked it and it should be variant 2 (011A:2).

... Binky, it seems that protocol 011A:2 is missing from the file.

Thanks a lot for your time.

Note: Edited to add gertc's file.


Last edited by regne v on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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