JP1 Remotes

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:23 am**

Maybe this will help.

What I am about to tell you is clearly documented in the Readme.txt that is included in the extender's .zip file. Here's the relevant text:

DEVICE SELECTION:
=================

There is no normal device selection. There is no VPT. There is no
Transport Punch Through. There is no Home Theater Mode.

Instead there is a device selection mechanism by key set that has a
superset of the power of all the above; But you must define macros to use
and customize it.

The device keys have no built in meaning. You must define macros to
have any device selection at all.

There are 33 commands that can be used in macros to control device
selection. Each command specifies the key set and the Device Index that will
be used for keys in that set. For example V_TV says the TV device will be
used for keys in the "Volume" set.

There are 4 Key sets: Volume, Transport, Other and Temporary(X).
There are 8 Device Indexes: SAT, TV, PVR, VCR, DVD, AUD, DEV7 and
DEV8. There is one additional command X_Cancel.

To achieve simple device selection (no VPT, TPT or HT) you would put a 3
command macro on each device key, for example the TV device key would have
the macro:
V_TV; T_TV; O_TV

The 6131 has only 6 device keys; But the extender uses 8 device indexes.
You can use any keys you want for the device selection macros (and you can use
device keys for other purposes).

To achieve VPT, replace the V_ command within the macro for each device
that should have VPT enabled with the command from the device to which VPT
should be set. For example, to enable TV VPT on your VCR, the VCR key
macro might be:
V_TV; T_VCR; O_VCR

If you want full VPT (same V_ selection in all device selection macros) you
can save some macro memory by omitting all the V_ commands. You can set the
initial V device using IR. That remains as the V device as long as no V_
commands specify a different V_ device.

To achieve crude TPT (such as most of the UEIC remotes) replace the T_
command within the macro for each device that should have TPT enabled with
T_VCR. For example, your TV key macro might be:
V_TV; T_VCR; O_TV

To achieve dynamic TPT (similar to the URC7800). Omit the T_ command from
the macro for each non Transport device and include it in the macro for each
transport device (VCR, DVD etc.). When you select a non transport device,
the T keys will all remain associated with whatever transport device was
most recently selected.

Shifted keys all go into the key set containing their unshifted
counterpart. For example SHIFT-Stop is in the T set. Phantom keys are in
the O set. Device keys are in the O set; But most people will put macros
on device keys. If a key is a macro, it doesn't matter which set it is in.
The set only matters for KeyMoves and for keys defined by setup code.

Temporary Device Selection:
---------------------------

Within a macro, you often want to issue a key to a specific device
regardless of the previous device selection and without disturbing that
previous device selection. You use X_ commands to do that. For example,
the sequence
X_TV; 0; 3
in a macro would send the 0 and 3 keys to the TV regardless of the previous
device selection.

The X_ selection is automatically canceled when the outermost macro (see
nested macros) completes. If the above example were intended for use as a
top level macro, there would be no need for it to explicitly cancel its X_
command. If the above example were in a general purpose macro that might
be called by other macros, you probably should change it to:
X_TV; 0; 3; X_Cancel

While an X_ command is active, it applies to all keys. The usual division
into Volume, Transport and Other doesn't apply.

The first thing you need to understand is that the device keys have no special meaning. They are not in any way associated with the devices of the same name. However, to simplify things, the extender installation process assigns macros to the device keys to make them behave like the device keys in the unextended remote.

The extender completely changes the way device selection works. In fact, there is no device selection. There is keyset selection. All the keys on the remote are divided into sets. There is a set for transport control (T), another set for volume (V), and a set for all others (0). There are also special virtual keys (they don't physically exist on the remote (like phantom keys), and you can't change what they do by assigning keymoves or macros to them) that are used for controlling which keyset is active at any time. Read the text above.

Edit the macro that is on the VCR button, adding the key presses you need to select the proper input and turn the VCR on.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:35 am**

IR.exe 6.10

DecodeIR.dll 2.14

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:42 am**

I'm not sure what is wrong. I don't have the "Specail Protocols" tab that you spoke of recently.

When I attempt to add macros like what is in your (Greg's) ir file, X_VCR and the like is not available.

I started wondering if I had actually installed the extender correctly (I downloaded it the night I first started this process). It looks like I didn't get it installed correctly.

So I started over. I used the install1.bat file included in the extender file. It DID create the new txt file. I started IR.exe and clicked Open>TXT and chose the new file. The Special Protocols tab DID show up. I was able to create macros similar to what is in Greg's file.

HOWEVER, when I attempt to upload the new settings to my remote, I get an error message Did not receive a response (acknowledgement from the remote after sending device address. (ErrNo=1, Param=168).

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:50 pm**

I think I'm FINALLY on the right track. I continued doing my own research into what could possibly be going wrong.

Well it looks like I had downloaded the WRONG EXTENDER. I mistakenly downloaded the 2k extender. My remote was upgraded by OFA.

I've got it back to the the point where It's controlling all devices. But I can still assign macros to the device keys.

I've still got a couple issues to inquire about though.

1) In Greg's IR file it lists $66 as a discrete off. I tried using that to turn off my TV, VCR's, DVD &surround sound (in seperate keymoves of course) but it didn't work even now that I'm using the right extender.

2) When I was using the previous non-extended version, I pressed set and then the key to access a shifted key. How do I access a shifted key now? When I start IR.exe using the proper extender, it has "2" as the shift character. SURELY that doesn't mean that I have to press 2 then the key.

3) The first of the following 2 Macros (assigned to the CBL/Sat device key) DOES make that device active in the remote's memory. I expected the 2 macro to make the TV active, send the power key, make the VCR active and send the power key.

Macro ONE: T_SAT;O_SAT
Macro TWO (First attempt): T_TV;Power;T_VCR;Power
Macro TWO (Second attempt): O_TV;Power;O_VCR;Power

Thanks for all the help.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:38 pm**

1) $66 is the discrete off for my device. It probably isn't the discrete off for yours. Yours may not have a discrete off.

2) By default the Set key is still the shift key. I believe 2 is the keycode for the set key.

3)T_TV only sets the transport keys (play, stop, pause, fast-forward, rewind, etc) to the TV device. V_TV would set the volume (and mute) keys to the TV device. O_TV sets all other keys to the TV device. Since Power isn't a transport device, T_TV shouldn't work.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:30 pm**

1) That makes sense. How do you find out if there's a discrete on (and what it is) then?

2) This is the entire list of macros that are currently installed on my remote (I copy/pasted from IR.exe). When I press the volume up button, it DOES turn up the volume on my surround sound (and all other volume controls work too). But when I press "Set and then Power", the TV surround sound turns off. Macro #10 should turn up the volume when I press Shift-Power.

# Key Macro Keys Note
1 CBL/SAT T_SAT;O_SAT
2 TV T_TV;O_TV
3 PVR T_PVR;O_PVR
4 VCR T_VCR;O_VCR
5 DVD T_DVD;O_DVD
6 AUD T_AUD;O_AUD
7 PIP O_DEV7;Power;O_VCR;Power
8 Move T_DEV8
9 SHIFT-TV T_DEV7;O_DEV7
10 SHIFT-Power Vol+

3) OH--I thought that either O_TV OR T_TV was making the tv current in the remote's memory. I just wasn't sure WHICH it was. I guess I've got some more reading to do.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:01 pm**

RE #1) Well I've been reading more. It seems THIS is where the ToadTogs come right? Use TT to create my own discrete off/on.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:47 pm**

The ToadTog instructions wrote:The "0" means we want to use toggle 0.

What does it mean toggle 0?

I understand binary code (I've used it in my own programming) but I'm not too sure about HEX.

The Keycode HTML file says that the power button is HEX 03.

Would a "virtual discrete on" for my VCR be set up as a:

1) key-move under that VCR
2) Device Type=VCR, Device Code=1800 (yes the device is installed and so is the protocol from the ToadTog txt file included with the 1kExtender).
3) HEX String=$89$03

I'm pretty confident about items 1 & 2 (although that doesn't mean I'm right of course) but the part that I'm REALLY unsure about is the hex code.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:09 pm**

I'm not a ToadTog expert by any means, but as I understand it, you set aside one byte of data to be used by ToadTog to keep track of your various device states. A byte is 8 bits (ie, binary) and they are numbered from 0 to 7 (starting at the right), so the numbered bits of one byte of data would be like this: 76543210

Therefore, you can use ToadTog to keep track of up to 8 devices. You would probably use bit-0, or "toggle 0", for the first device.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:37 pm**

Device Device
# Button Key Button Device Type Setup Code Hex Cmd EFC or Key Name Note
1 CBL/SAT Swap PVR VCR/DVD 0048 $66 001
2 PVR Thumbs_Up <N/A> VCR/DVD 1800 $88 $03 34502 discrete ON - Via ToadTog
3 PVR Thumbs_Down <N/A> VCR/DVD 1800 $09 $03 33478 discrete OFF - Via ToadTog

THat added a little clarity and I THINK the above should be working (one of my VCR's is assigned to the PVR device key).

I THINK that says that I'm going ot use toggle #0 for this device, 2 will check the status of the toggle and turn it ON if it's off as well as send the power key (turn the VCR on). While 3 will turn the toggle OFF and if it was on, send the power key (turn the VCR off).

As you can see, I assigned them to the thumbs up and thumbs down keys respectively (under the PVR device). But yet, when I press those buttons, nothing happens.

Also, still having trouble with the shifted commands.

This is the entire list of macros that are currently installed on my remote (I copy/pasted from IR.exe). When I press the volume up button, it DOES turn up the volume on my surround sound (and all other volume controls work too). But when I press "Set and then Power", the TV surround sound turns off. Macro #10 should turn up the volume when I press Shift-Power.

# Key Macro Keys Note
1 CBL/SAT T_SAT;O_SAT
2 TV T_TV;O_TV
3 PVR T_PVR;O_PVR
4 VCR T_VCR;O_VCR
5 DVD T_DVD;O_DVD
6 AUD T_AUD;O_AUD
7 PIP O_DEV7;Power;O_VCR;Power
8 Move T_DEV8
9 SHIFT-TV T_DEV7;O_DEV7
10 SHIFT-Power Vol+

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:53 am**

doni-49 wrote:
Device Device
# Button Key Button Device Type Setup Code Hex Cmd EFC or Key Name Note
1 CBL/SAT Swap PVR VCR/DVD 0048 $66 001
2 PVR Thumbs_Up <N/A> VCR/DVD 1800 $88 $03 34502 discrete ON - Via ToadTog
3 PVR Thumbs_Down <N/A> VCR/DVD 1800 $09 $03 33478 discrete OFF - Via ToadTog
THat added a little clarity and I THINK the above should be working (one of my VCR's is assigned to the PVR device key).

I THINK that says that I'm going ot use toggle #0 for this device, 2 will check the status of the toggle and turn it ON if it's off as well as send the power key (turn the VCR on). While 3 will turn the toggle OFF and if it was on, send the power key (turn the VCR off).

As you can see, I assigned them to the thumbs up and thumbs down keys respectively (under the PVR device). But yet, when I press those buttons, nothing happens.

Also, still having trouble with the shifted commands.

This is the entire list of macros that are currently installed on my remote (I copy/pasted from IR.exe). When I press the volume up button, it DOES turn up the volume on my surround sound (and all other volume controls work too). But when I press "Set and then Power", the TV surround sound turns off. Macro #10 should turn up the volume when I press Shift-Power.

# Key Macro Keys Note
1 CBL/SAT T_SAT;O_SAT
2 TV T_TV;O_TV
3 PVR T_PVR;O_PVR
4 VCR T_VCR;O_VCR
5 DVD T_DVD;O_DVD
6 AUD T_AUD;O_AUD
7 PIP O_DEV7;Power;O_VCR;Power
8 Move T_DEV8
9 SHIFT-TV T_DEV7;O_DEV7
10 SHIFT-Power Vol+

Your ToadTog button sequences don't select the device, so it will only send power signals to the currently active O_ device. I would add X_VCR before each instance of "Power" in the two ToadTog sequences.

i.e. FORCE OFF would be $0A $6B $03
FORCE ON would be $88 $6B $03

As far as your macro goes, it may be conflicting with a KeyMove on the same Button, as IR loads KeyMoves BEFORE macros in the EEPROM, so the remote FIRST looks for a KeyMove, and only after it fails to find one, goes looking for a macro on that button.

I think we're at the point where you should upload your IR file, as piecemealing this troubleshooting effort is becoming rather complex. One of the forum members could check several of your "symptoms" and possible causes without having to ask more questions if you'd simply upload your file to the diagnostic area and post a link to it.

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:02 am**

Capn Trips wrote:
doni-49 wrote:
Device Device
# Button Key Button Device Type Setup Code Hex Cmd EFC or Key Name Note
1 CBL/SAT Swap PVR VCR/DVD 0048 $66 001
2 PVR Thumbs_Up <N/A> VCR/DVD 1800 $88 $03 34502 discrete ON - Via ToadTog
3 PVR Thumbs_Down <N/A> VCR/DVD 1800 $09 $03 33478 discrete OFF - Via ToadTog
THat added a little clarity and I THINK the above should be working (one of my VCR's is assigned to the PVR device key).

I THINK that says that I'm going ot use toggle #0 for this device, 2 will check the status of the toggle and turn it ON if it's off as well as send the power key (turn the VCR on). While 3 will turn the toggle OFF and if it was on, send the power key (turn the VCR off).

As you can see, I assigned them to the thumbs up and thumbs down keys respectively (under the PVR device). But yet, when I press those buttons, nothing happens.

Also, still having trouble with the shifted commands.

This is the entire list of macros that are currently installed on my remote (I copy/pasted from IR.exe). When I press the volume up button, it DOES turn up the volume on my surround sound (and all other volume controls work too). But when I press "Set and then Power", the TV surround sound turns off. Macro #10 should turn up the volume when I press Shift-Power.

# Key Macro Keys Note
1 CBL/SAT T_SAT;O_SAT
2 TV T_TV;O_TV
3 PVR T_PVR;O_PVR
4 VCR T_VCR;O_VCR
5 DVD T_DVD;O_DVD
6 AUD T_AUD;O_AUD
7 PIP O_DEV7;Power;O_VCR;Power
8 Move T_DEV8
9 SHIFT-TV T_DEV7;O_DEV7
10 SHIFT-Power Vol+
Your ToadTog button sequences don't select the device, so it will only send power signals to the currently active O_ device. I would add X_VCR before each instance of "Power" in the two ToadTog sequences.

i.e. FORCE OFF would be $0A $6B $03
FORCE ON would be $88 $6B $03

As far as your macro goes, it may be conflicting with a KeyMove on the same Button, as IR loads KeyMoves BEFORE macros in the EEPROM, so the remote FIRST looks for a KeyMove, and only after it fails to find one, goes looking for a macro on that button.

No other shifted keys ANYWHERE else.

Capn Trips wrote: I think we're at the point where you should upload your IR file, as piecemealing this troubleshooting effort is becoming rather complex. One of the forum members could check several of your "symptoms" and possible causes without having to ask more questions if you'd simply upload your file to the diagnostic area and post a link to it.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2138

I realized that when I uploaded the ToadTog device (VCR/1800), IR got rid of my surround sound device. So I changed it from Vol+ to Ch+. It STILL doesn't work.

I tried the revised Discreets you provided and they didn't turn my VCR on or off (but the power key DOES toggle it on and off).

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:47 am**

Your ToadTogs, bound to the Thumbs Up and Thumbs Down keys in PVR mode, set the temporary device to VCR, and then press the Power key. This is OK if you really want the VCR device turned on/off, but I thought you wanted the PVR device turned on/off.

You should be using X_PVR instead of X_VCR.

However, I don't think you really need any device selection, as long as you are making sure that the active O device is PVR before testing your ToadTogs.

Note that I still think that ToadTog is not the best way to handle a VCR. I recommend trying a DSM (Device Specific Macro) with Play;Stop for discrete on and Play;Power for discrete off.

For help finding discrete codes, see Discrete Codes.

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:49 pm**

gfb107 wrote:Your ToadTogs, bound to the Thumbs Up and Thumbs Down keys in PVR mode, set the temporary device to VCR, and then press the Power key. This is OK if you really want the VCR device turned on/off, but I thought you wanted the PVR device turned on/off.

You should be using X_PVR instead of X_VCR.

To group my devices on the remote that make sense to ME, I put the Tivo1 on TV, Tivo2 on Cbl (one is above the other), VCR1 on PVR, VCR2 on AUD (again one above the other), DVD on DVD and Surround Sound on VCR.

All that means that my VCR is in fact assigned to the PVR button.

gfb107 wrote: However, I don't think you really need any device selection, as long as you are making sure that the active O device is PVR before testing your ToadTogs.

But even AFTER I press the PVR button (making the VCR active) and press the Thumbs-up key, it DOESN'T turn on. Yet if I press the power key, it DOES turn on.

gfb107 wrote:
Note that I still think that ToadTog is not the best way to handle a VCR. I recommend trying a DSM (Device Specific Macro) with Play;Stop for discrete on and Play;Power for discrete off.

The main reason I want to turn my devices on. But I don't want to send a power key if it's already on. I've got 5 devices to worry about: DVD, VCR1, VCR2, TV and Surround Sound. And figured that I'd be able to avoid having to hunt down 10 discrete codes (2 for each device--on & off) by using TT. ESPECIALLY to eventually possibly find that one or more devices doesnt' use discreets. Neither of my VCR's or DVD turn on with any button EXCEPT power. My surround sound DOES turn on with a volume command though so that'll work.

The ToadTogs that I have already assigned are JUST for testing purposes. After I no that I understand them I was going to develop them further.

And I'm STILL having trouble with the shifted keys. I was hoping to use a keymove on SHIFT+TV to make my TV (dev7) active (in case the TV doesn't pick up the POWER on sent via one of my macros, I need a way to turn it on).

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:24 pm**

I'm not sure I'm being helpful, but I will continue to ask questions in search of clarity. If what you are doing is clear to others helping, then I'll just butt out and continue watching, but...

Several aspects of your IR file raise questions in my mind:
(1) Greg's comment about PVR vs. VCR is appropriate - which device are you trying to control via the ToadTog?
(2) Your VPT is set to your VCR device (Built-in device VCR/DVD 2047 - since you have no such upgrade). Is this intentional? What is VCR/DVD 2047 controlling? And is VCR/DVD 2047 really a built-in device on the 6131? I don't believe it is.
(3) It's not unheard of, but seems unusual to assign the Keymove for your PVR device (VCR/DVD 0048) to a button in the CBL/SAT device mode? Is that intentional?
(4) Your shift-TV macro does exactly the same thing as your TV macro. Intentional?
(5) Your Move macro is confusing, since it assigns the T_buttons to Dev_8 (CBL/SAT 0920) which you use for nothing else anywhere, while you have an upgrade for VCR/DVD 0920 that eats a lot of memory and is seemingly unused anywhere in your file,
(6) Notes in your IR file pointing out the device assignment to component matching from your last post would be EXTREMELY useful. Similarly, most users now use the notes section for device and protocol upgrade to help keep straight which appllies to what component.

As far as the VCR (PVR?) power signal not executing from within the ToadTog, my only thought right now (once you get it sending to the correct device) is a duration problem. When you execute the power signal from a direct button press, you get enough repeats for the VCR to pick it up and act, while in a sequenced execution, like in a ToadTog series or a macro, the duration from one iteration of the signal may too short. Have you tried placing that power signal in a simple macro? Does it work there? Does it work better if it the LAST signal in the macro - and you hold the button down longer? If the problem is duration, you may be able to sort that out by trying a few variations on how you send the signal. Unfortunately the easiest solution for a duration problem is use of the Device Combiner protocol (don't ask, duration control is just a side-benefit of this protocol), but it is a memory-hog (like 144 bytes!) which you can't afford just now.

Your concern about finding a few discretes and not others (thereby relying FULLY on ToadTog) is misplaced. Any discrete you find reduces the need for a workaround (like ToadTog, or Play-Stop), saving you memory. ToadTog is not an "all-or-nothing" deal, you'd only use it where you need it, and discretes everywhere else if you find them.

JP1 Remotes

I've downloaded from the remote need to mod.....