Hi,
yes, this codes work fine. The same is true for XSHIFT-DiscreteON (FE) and XSHIFT-DiscreteOFF (FF).
They are all very useful for systematic naming if you have ToadTog, LKP and DSM nested. And you need extra keys for each device if you want to combine without the device combiner.
Emil
URC-8060 Extender 1
Moderator: Moderators
Well I think I'm done now, I can't think of anything more I want to do with my remote (at the moment 
).
I've got 140 Key Moves, 22 Macros, 3 custom devices (in addition to the standard extender ones), and two protocols (device combiner and XP Media Centre protocol which was downloaded off the OFA web site).
I'm using Macros on the device keys, changed default screens, extended backlight timer, Nested Macros, DSM's, ToadTog, Long Key Press and Pause Protocol. In fact the only feature I can think of that I'm not using is Double Key Press.
There have been remarkably few bugs along the way, apart from the major hiccough to start with as there is more then one version of the remote. A couple of keys transposed in the RDF, a bug with ToadTog and the device combiner protocol, all of which were fixed within a few minutes once they were identified.
It's happily controlling 9 devices in a manner that is easy enough for my partner and kids aged 12 and 13 to use without having to ask how to turn that on or this off. That’s an order of magnitude better than I could achieve without JP1 and the extender.
Having done all that I've still got 812 Bytes of Move/Macro memory free and 734 bytes of upgrade memory free.
So a huge thanks to all involved with this, especially Nils who must have spent quite some time in getting all this to work the way it does now (those long conference calls have some merit after all!).
Regards,
Richard
).I've got 140 Key Moves, 22 Macros, 3 custom devices (in addition to the standard extender ones), and two protocols (device combiner and XP Media Centre protocol which was downloaded off the OFA web site).
I'm using Macros on the device keys, changed default screens, extended backlight timer, Nested Macros, DSM's, ToadTog, Long Key Press and Pause Protocol. In fact the only feature I can think of that I'm not using is Double Key Press.
There have been remarkably few bugs along the way, apart from the major hiccough to start with as there is more then one version of the remote. A couple of keys transposed in the RDF, a bug with ToadTog and the device combiner protocol, all of which were fixed within a few minutes once they were identified.
It's happily controlling 9 devices in a manner that is easy enough for my partner and kids aged 12 and 13 to use without having to ask how to turn that on or this off. That’s an order of magnitude better than I could achieve without JP1 and the extender.
Having done all that I've still got 812 Bytes of Move/Macro memory free and 734 bytes of upgrade memory free.
So a huge thanks to all involved with this, especially Nils who must have spent quite some time in getting all this to work the way it does now (those long conference calls have some merit after all!).
Regards,
Richard
-
Nils_Ekberg
- Expert
- Posts: 1689
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:08 pm
- Location: Near Albany, NY
Thats an amazing story and an amazing set of accomplishments on your part. I am really happy for your success and glad that I could help.
I appreciate you patience and support in developing this extender. It was definitely a fun challenge and without your input and testing it may not have happened.
And don't disappear now that you are done..
I appreciate you patience and support in developing this extender. It was definitely a fun challenge and without your input and testing it may not have happened.
And don't disappear now that you are done..
@Richard:
Congrats to your success. I have still some way to go, but it is fun.
May be you can tell more about the control concept that is behind your finished setup. This may give others and me some ideas to improve our setups.
I am still struggling here and don't know yet what way to go. Either control everything from the same screen and device or use multiple devices. I have a standard TV mode of operation which uses a regular TV as display device, and a HT mode with projector, projector lift, scaler, screen, light, ...
The problem is that such functions as scaler, screen/projector up/down, light control don't match the available standard device types very well. With the pronto you can label the buttons, but it has other disadvantages like small buttons and screen size.
Until I am definitive regarding strategy I will collect all the devices and codes and do a setup at least for the TV mode. This is still a lot of work. Especially the power on sequence with ToadTog is not always free from errors and needs tuning and some recovery strategy.
@Nils:
Thanks again for your great work.
Good night, (going to bed now here in germany
)
Emil
Congrats to your success. I have still some way to go, but it is fun.
May be you can tell more about the control concept that is behind your finished setup. This may give others and me some ideas to improve our setups.
I am still struggling here and don't know yet what way to go. Either control everything from the same screen and device or use multiple devices. I have a standard TV mode of operation which uses a regular TV as display device, and a HT mode with projector, projector lift, scaler, screen, light, ...
The problem is that such functions as scaler, screen/projector up/down, light control don't match the available standard device types very well. With the pronto you can label the buttons, but it has other disadvantages like small buttons and screen size.
Until I am definitive regarding strategy I will collect all the devices and codes and do a setup at least for the TV mode. This is still a lot of work. Especially the power on sequence with ToadTog is not always free from errors and needs tuning and some recovery strategy.
@Nils:
Thanks again for your great work.
Good night, (going to bed now here in germany
)Emil
Emil,
Here is a fairly detailed description of how the remote is configured, might be quite good to read if you have insomnia!
The basic concept behind what I did was to keep it as simple as possible to use. In some cases that has involved leaving functionality off the remote if its rarely used (like many of the AV Amp settings). In those cases I'll get out the original remote, but with my Amp its not much of a problem as it remembers different surround modes for each device anyway.
Basically each device button sets up the TV, Amp, Device and Remote for use with that device. It uses a ToadTog to determine if the TV and Amp is already on or not, if its off then it turns the stuff on, pauses (for about 7 seconds) while the TV powers up and then issues the commands to set the input channel (usually the Amp, but could be a PC input or TV input). If the Power Toggle is set then it skips the delay, but still issues the TV and Amp power on in case they were turned off or missed the power on signal previously for some reason. When selecting any device the "Power On toggle" is always set to On.
The Shift Device key for each device just sets up the remote for that device.
The Power key is set to turn the TV and Amp off and to clear the Power On toggle. Each device is set so that Shift Power will toggle the power state of that device using the Power Toggle command, however as the SAT system is permanently On, the Sat Shift Power issues a Power Toggle command to the Amp instead. I decided not to automatically turn off the devices other than the TV and Amp when using the Power key as th output from all devices is routed round the house via RF, so someone could be watching that device in another room.
Apart from the input select commands, the only functions of the Amp that are used are Volume and Mute, these use VPT by assigning them to the TV device keys and the not defining any V_xxx commands.
The AUD device is remapped to a DVD type device which controls a Windows XP Media Centre PC, this was a problem to get going as it uses commands which have a toggle bit in the protocol, the result is that you can't learn them. I had to download the protocol from OFA and the device. Unfortunately for some reason OFA assigned this to be a VCR device which is a pain as the Kameleon screens for a VCR do not map nicely to the MCE functionality. So I used KM to define a DVD type device from the EFC's given to me by OFA for the device upgrade.
The M commands are used for sub-device selection, as the Kameleon does not have enough devices for me
. M3 always selects the Tape input (my tape deck has no remote control capability 
), M4 always selects the PS/2 input. M1 is set to select the primary device, so if for some reason the device key does not select the correct input it can be done with the M1 key. M2 selects the secondary device. There are two secondary devices, SAT has Sky+ and Sky, CD has CD and MD decks.
When M1 is selected the ToadTog is cleared to indicate the primary device, when M2 is selected the ToadTog is set to indicate the secondary device. The Amp input is selected and in the case of Sky+ the full PVR SAT screen is selected, for Sky the Menu screen is selected. Now when any button for that device is used it first tests the ToadTog, the original device is defined to use the Shift key (using the default automatic shift) and the second device uses the xShift key. Apart from removing unnecessary keys from the remote when using Sky this also gives a visual indication on the remote of the active device. For theCD/MD combination there is no such indication, if only the 'Record' button could be individually turned off and on (are you listening UEIC!).
The device ToadTog for SAT is also tested when the Sky device is selected and it runs a ToadTog test to see which device was previously selected which in turn runs either the M1 or M2 key to setup the correct Amp input and remote screen. Similarly the Shift SAT button tests the ToadTog and then configures the remote screen but does not change the Amp settings. The result of this is that when the SAT key is pressed it runs quite a complex macro sequence :
SAT macro
Part of the macro can also be triggered using the Shift SAT key, this only sets up the remote (remember ) and other parts are used when the M1 (Shift M1 XShift M1) and M2 (Shift M2 XShift M2) keys are pressed. So although there are one or two redundent checks, sets and clears of the SAT ToadTog, the macros are re-usable.
One thing it would be nice to be able to do in IR is to have comments by Macros and Key Moves, its quite hard to remember that $A4 $5B $36 $36 $36 $5B is the sequence for setting the Menu Screen when the Sky sub-device is selected! If I need to change things in a years time it will probably take a while to work out what its doing. I guess I'll use the cut and paste facility and write it up in a Word document, it would just be nice to have it in one place so you can change it as you edit things.
I've also configured a few macros for the Sky+ system, for example a short press on the Guide button goes directly to the EPG, a long press goes to the list of recordings on the hard drive. As the Sky+ box has no concept of tracks, a short press on the Track Forward or Track Backward executes a macro which Fast forwards at the maximum speed, a long key press causes fast forwards for 5 seconds which can be used to skip an average length commercial break.
That’s about it, the controller is intuitive, but flexible enough to handle any time that it may get 'out of sync' due to the remote being out of sight of one of the components. It will perform any day to day task, but there are some functions that I need the original remote for, they are kept in a draw near by.
My only gripe with the controller is that if the sun is bright it can be difficult to see the keys, I would prefer that it was more traditional remote which physical keys which illuminated rather than being totally flat. After exhaustive search I could not find a remote which had the functionality I wanted with one key feature, Red, Green, Yellow and Blue buttons! Sky makes extensive use of these buttons and they perform different functions, if you don't have a Red button it is very difficult to remember which one it was defined on as Red can mean Page Down, Interactive mode, Mark for Copying, and various categories of program type. If you hit the wrong coloured button (especially yellow) then the results can be 'unfortunate', the yellow key deletes programs from the hard drive when in the recorded programs list, so instead of marking for copy you delete it!
So there you have it, if you have any questions I'll try an answer them, but I'm still new to the JP1 stuff and extenders, I've only been at it a month or so.
Richard
Here is a fairly detailed description of how the remote is configured, might be quite good to read if you have insomnia!
The basic concept behind what I did was to keep it as simple as possible to use. In some cases that has involved leaving functionality off the remote if its rarely used (like many of the AV Amp settings). In those cases I'll get out the original remote, but with my Amp its not much of a problem as it remembers different surround modes for each device anyway.
Basically each device button sets up the TV, Amp, Device and Remote for use with that device. It uses a ToadTog to determine if the TV and Amp is already on or not, if its off then it turns the stuff on, pauses (for about 7 seconds) while the TV powers up and then issues the commands to set the input channel (usually the Amp, but could be a PC input or TV input). If the Power Toggle is set then it skips the delay, but still issues the TV and Amp power on in case they were turned off or missed the power on signal previously for some reason. When selecting any device the "Power On toggle" is always set to On.
The Shift Device key for each device just sets up the remote for that device.
The Power key is set to turn the TV and Amp off and to clear the Power On toggle. Each device is set so that Shift Power will toggle the power state of that device using the Power Toggle command, however as the SAT system is permanently On, the Sat Shift Power issues a Power Toggle command to the Amp instead. I decided not to automatically turn off the devices other than the TV and Amp when using the Power key as th output from all devices is routed round the house via RF, so someone could be watching that device in another room.
Apart from the input select commands, the only functions of the Amp that are used are Volume and Mute, these use VPT by assigning them to the TV device keys and the not defining any V_xxx commands.
The AUD device is remapped to a DVD type device which controls a Windows XP Media Centre PC, this was a problem to get going as it uses commands which have a toggle bit in the protocol, the result is that you can't learn them. I had to download the protocol from OFA and the device. Unfortunately for some reason OFA assigned this to be a VCR device which is a pain as the Kameleon screens for a VCR do not map nicely to the MCE functionality. So I used KM to define a DVD type device from the EFC's given to me by OFA for the device upgrade.
The M commands are used for sub-device selection, as the Kameleon does not have enough devices for me
. M3 always selects the Tape input (my tape deck has no remote control capability ), M4 always selects the PS/2 input. M1 is set to select the primary device, so if for some reason the device key does not select the correct input it can be done with the M1 key. M2 selects the secondary device. There are two secondary devices, SAT has Sky+ and Sky, CD has CD and MD decks. When M1 is selected the ToadTog is cleared to indicate the primary device, when M2 is selected the ToadTog is set to indicate the secondary device. The Amp input is selected and in the case of Sky+ the full PVR SAT screen is selected, for Sky the Menu screen is selected. Now when any button for that device is used it first tests the ToadTog, the original device is defined to use the Shift key (using the default automatic shift) and the second device uses the xShift key. Apart from removing unnecessary keys from the remote when using Sky this also gives a visual indication on the remote of the active device. For theCD/MD combination there is no such indication, if only the 'Record' button could be individually turned off and on (are you listening UEIC!).
The device ToadTog for SAT is also tested when the Sky device is selected and it runs a ToadTog test to see which device was previously selected which in turn runs either the M1 or M2 key to setup the correct Amp input and remote screen. Similarly the Shift SAT button tests the ToadTog and then configures the remote screen but does not change the Amp settings. The result of this is that when the SAT key is pressed it runs quite a complex macro sequence :
SAT macro
- Generic On Macro
- TV On
Amp On
Test and set Power ToadTog for Delay Macro- If previously off delay
Test SAT ToadTog state to set input Macro- If on Set the Sky Amp Input
- Shift M2 Macro
- Set SAT ToadTog
Select Amp input for Sky
- Set SAT ToadTog
- Shift M1 Macro
- Clear SAT ToadTog
Select Amp input for Sky+
- Clear SAT ToadTog
- Shift M2 Macro
- X_SAT
P_SAT
M_SAT
C_SAT
T_SAT
O_SAT
Test SAT ToadTog State to set Screen Macro- if On Select the Menu screen
- XShift M2 Macro
- Select Pvr screen using O_SAT
Scroll
Scroll
Scroll (to get to the menu screen).
- Select Pvr screen using O_SAT
- XShift M1 Macro
- Select Pvr screen using O_SAT
- XShift M2 Macro
- if On Select the Menu screen
- TV On
Part of the macro can also be triggered using the Shift SAT key, this only sets up the remote (remember
) and other parts are used when the M1 (Shift M1 XShift M1) and M2 (Shift M2 XShift M2) keys are pressed. So although there are one or two redundent checks, sets and clears of the SAT ToadTog, the macros are re-usable.One thing it would be nice to be able to do in IR is to have comments by Macros and Key Moves, its quite hard to remember that $A4 $5B $36 $36 $36 $5B is the sequence for setting the Menu Screen when the Sky sub-device is selected! If I need to change things in a years time it will probably take a while to work out what its doing. I guess I'll use the cut and paste facility and write it up in a Word document, it would just be nice to have it in one place so you can change it as you edit things.
I've also configured a few macros for the Sky+ system, for example a short press on the Guide button goes directly to the EPG, a long press goes to the list of recordings on the hard drive. As the Sky+ box has no concept of tracks, a short press on the Track Forward or Track Backward executes a macro which Fast forwards at the maximum speed, a long key press causes fast forwards for 5 seconds which can be used to skip an average length commercial break.
That’s about it, the controller is intuitive, but flexible enough to handle any time that it may get 'out of sync' due to the remote being out of sight of one of the components. It will perform any day to day task, but there are some functions that I need the original remote for, they are kept in a draw near by.
My only gripe with the controller is that if the sun is bright it can be difficult to see the keys, I would prefer that it was more traditional remote which physical keys which illuminated rather than being totally flat. After exhaustive search I could not find a remote which had the functionality I wanted with one key feature, Red, Green, Yellow and Blue buttons! Sky makes extensive use of these buttons and they perform different functions, if you don't have a Red button it is very difficult to remember which one it was defined on as Red can mean Page Down, Interactive mode, Mark for Copying, and various categories of program type. If you hit the wrong coloured button (especially yellow) then the results can be 'unfortunate', the yellow key deletes programs from the hard drive when in the recorded programs list, so instead of marking for copy you delete it!
So there you have it, if you have any questions I'll try an answer them, but I'm still new to the JP1 stuff and extenders, I've only been at it a month or so.
Richard
@Richard:
Thanks for your extensive description. I will need some time to digest it.
@Nils:
I may have discovered a further problem. I have programmed a LKP macro onto SHIFT-M4. After issueing a command with a long key press (SHIFT-M4 long) I have to press SHIFT-M4 (short) two times to get the short press command.
Emil
Thanks for your extensive description. I will need some time to digest it.
@Nils:
I may have discovered a further problem. I have programmed a LKP macro onto SHIFT-M4. After issueing a command with a long key press (SHIFT-M4 long) I have to press SHIFT-M4 (short) two times to get the short press command.
Emil
-
Nils_Ekberg
- Expert
- Posts: 1689
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:08 pm
- Location: Near Albany, NY
Upload the IR file to the diagnosis file area and link it from here so I can get a look at it.egn wrote:@Nils:
I may have discovered a further problem. I have programmed a LKP macro onto SHIFT-M4. After issueing a command with a long key press (SHIFT-M4 long) I have to press SHIFT-M4 (short) two times to get the short press command.
Emil
Have you tried putting the LKP macro directly on Shift M4 rather than calling the one on Shift 8 through Shift M4? I'm not sure how it would determine what a long key press was as the macro is not on the key that is being pressed. i.e. put $51 $E9 $EA directly on Shift M4 using the TV 1106 device.
Richard
Richard
Hi Richard,
no, I haven't tried that yet because I wanted a device specific macro on this key.
The distinction between long and short keypress works fine. The only problem is that I have to press SHIFT-M4 (short) twice after using SHIFT-M4 (long).
I will test your recommendation to isolate the cause. It may be an interaction of DSM and LKP.
I would like to put this function on a shifted key to make the activation more proof against accidential use. The key moves up and down projector and screen.
Thanks,
Emil
no, I haven't tried that yet because I wanted a device specific macro on this key.
The distinction between long and short keypress works fine. The only problem is that I have to press SHIFT-M4 (short) twice after using SHIFT-M4 (long).
I will test your recommendation to isolate the cause. It may be an interaction of DSM and LKP.
I would like to put this function on a shifted key to make the activation more proof against accidential use. The key moves up and down projector and screen.
Thanks,
Emil
May be I didn't understand DSM right.
I thought I need DSM to get the macro device specific. But if I think again about it, you seem to be right at least in some cases. As only one key is used in the macro and this key is device specific defined there is no problem. Only if the macro does contain multiple keys which are not defined separately then DSM is necessary.
I will try to remove the extra level of key moves where possible.
I thought I need DSM to get the macro device specific. But if I think again about it, you seem to be right at least in some cases. As only one key is used in the macro and this key is device specific defined there is no problem. Only if the macro does contain multiple keys which are not defined separately then DSM is necessary.
I will try to remove the extra level of key moves where possible.
You can still use LKP macro for use with longer key sequences without defining other macros, so long as they are only 7 keys long, the right nibble of the first byte specifies how many key strokes are in the first command sequence, the maximum is 7 as 8 defines a DKP macro. You can call keys and normal macros directly in the LKP macro or even call keys assigned to another device by using the X_xxx commands to switch to that device.
So if you are really short of keys the only normal macros you need are ones that you will execute manually and are required across all devices. Of course normal macros are easier to define than DSM or LKP macros so it would make sense to use them if you have the keys available.
So if you are really short of keys the only normal macros you need are ones that you will execute manually and are required across all devices. Of course normal macros are easier to define than DSM or LKP macros so it would make sense to use them if you have the keys available.
Over to Nils then!
I have suspected that there is something not quite right about using M keys, they do have some effect on the current screen selection when used in a macro, maybe there is another register which is used internally by these keys for some reason. In my case I have been able to code round the unexpected screen changes, usually by changing the order of commands in the macro.
I have suspected that there is something not quite right about using M keys, they do have some effect on the current screen selection when used in a macro, maybe there is another register which is used internally by these keys for some reason. In my case I have been able to code round the unexpected screen changes, usually by changing the order of commands in the macro.