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finding discretes, or dealing with toggles

 
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jwkxneud



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:09 am    Post subject: finding discretes, or dealing with toggles Reply with quote

I've just run through EFC 0-255 on all my gear, and haven't turned up any discrete "on" codes. Is that the right technique? Is there anything else I should try? Do components ever have discretes on different device ids, or anything? And there are some multi-byte codes that aren't described by EFCs, right?

If I am stuck with a house of toads, what are the options? I gather that one option is to find work-arounds. I think I can turn the dvd player on with "play-menu", and turn it off with "play-power". The vcr and amp aren't so easy, since they are only turned on by the power toggle.

I guess "toadtog" is another workaround, eh? It tries to keep the remote in sync with the toad? I think that will work with the amp, since the panel power button is rarely used.

The vcr is harder, since it will get out of sync every time someone pushes a tape in it when it isn't on. Are there any other tricks to try?
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you assume your devices are all TOADs (which they may well be), you should post some info on these devices, in case one of our experts knows of some discretes for you to try. The info we would need is as follows:

1) Brand of the device
2) Model number of the device
3) The built-in setup code you are using
4) If you are using a JP1 upgrade to control this device, please post a link to the file.

Sometimes discretes can indeed be found under different device codes, but this is not the norm, so if you have properly tried all 256 EFCs, then in all likelyhood, you do have TOADs.

The "toadtog" protocol would be your next move and there are folks here who are expert at using it (but I'm not one of them I'm afraid).
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Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
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jon_armstrong
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I both posted the EFCs and modified the device upgrade file for your Sanyo projector to include discrete power commands. Did those work?

In addition to Rob's suggestions here are some general rules:

The Play and/or eject command turns On (from Off) a number of VCR's, CD's, and DVD's. If so a macro for Play|Stop is On and Play|Power toggle is Off.

Set Top Boxes (STB's) consume very little power and usually consume about the same amount whether on or off. Some DirecTV and Dish units have discrete power commands but I don't think any cable or digital cable STB's have discrete power commands. So, leave them on all the time. Key move a bougus command onto the Power button so no one turns them off.

For TV's the Ch+ button generally will take the set back to the tuner. So, a macro for Ch+|Video toggle is Video 1, Ch+|Video toggle|Video toggle is Video 2, etc.

Using EFC's can be very inefficient since EFC's are 8-bits and protocols such as Sony, Panasonic (old), Scientific Atlanta, Dishplayer (old) have only 7-bits (Sony) or 6-bits (the rest) which substantially reduce the number of possible commands (128 and 64 respectively).

Also EFC's are deceptive since the OBC's or true commands will usually be in order. For example in Panasonic TV's Tuner is OBC=0, Video 1=1, Video 2=2, Video 3=3, Video 4=4. BTW, not every Panasonic TV responds to discrete commands, bit IF they do it will be those.
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jwkxneud



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jon_armstrong wrote:
I both posted the EFCs and modified the device upgrade file for your Sanyo projector to include discrete power commands. Did those work?


Jon -- The upgrade file for the Z2 works perfectly. Thanks!

It's my other devices that appear to be toads. They are rather ridiculously low-end devices, especially to be connecting to the Z2. I'll be upgrading some of them in the next few months, so I don't want to spend too much time on them. But if I can make it easy to use now I can avoid the work-time phone calls from frustrated family members...

The DVD player is a Go-Video DVP850. I'm using the UEI upgrade DVD 0783. There's also a KM file at yahoo. I didn't see any discrete codes in it, or in the code list from UEI. The work-arounds work well for it. I put "play-power" on a macro and it consistently leaves the device off.

The vcr is an Emerson VCR3002 (a truely arcane device). I'm using the built-in VCR 184 setup code.

The amp is a Onkyo TX-8211. I'm using built-in setup code RCVR 0135.
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jon_armstrong
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onkyo receivers USUALLY have discrete power commands. The Off command is on a different device number. IIRC, there should be several files under Audio using one of the NEC combo protocols that have the discrete commands. I think some models only respond to On or Off but you can always get the other with a macro following with the Power toggle command.

BTW, I forgot to mention that many receivers will turn On from off with a discrete input command so you might also try that too.

The VCR is most likely a toad but look at the brighter side a SD VCR over a HD Projector is pretty awful, IMO. [Digression]There is a pretty cool PCI card for a PC called MyHD120 that is a tuner for HD OTA broadcasts and has software to turn your PC into a PVR. But since it is recording at 19 Mb/sec (~8 GB/hour) you need a fairly decent PC with a big HD Smile[\Digression]

If you go for one of the combo DVD/VCR's be careful and take your pre-programmed OFA remote along to test. The Sony DVD/VCR is one of th few Sony devices that does not respond to discrete commands.
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jwkxneud



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jon_armstrong wrote:
Onkyo receivers USUALLY have discrete power commands. The Off command is on a different device number. IIRC, there should be several files under Audio using one of the NEC combo protocols that have the discrete commands. I think some models only respond to On or Off but you can always get the other with a macro following with the Power toggle command.


How do EFCs work with a combo protocol? Could the upgrade from UEI include the discrete command? There is a "power on" listed in RCVR 0135, but it has the same EFC as the power toggle, 692. Could that be the discrete command under a different device id? If so, how would I invoke it?
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jwkxneud



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just tried some of the onkyo files in the archive. The discrete codes don't work. I wanted to try all of the sub-device 108 EFCs, so I tried creating a single sub-device upgrade, with NEC1. This didn't seem to work. If I change the protocol to NEC1 and set the device and subdevice to the usual settings (subdevice 109), the codes don't seem to work. The power toggle was working for some reason, but nothing else.

Since that didn't work, I don't expect doing the same thing with subdevice 108 will let me scan that subdevice. I don't know what bit was missing.
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jwkxneud



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm, well, I got subdevice 109 working on its own, and then tried 108. Still no response on any EFCs. Oh well. Looks like the 8211 is a toad, or has its discrete codes hidden someplace else.
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