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The future of JP1 in the 64-bit world
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kcmurphy88



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy--

Is your 1.2/1.3 USB interface the same as the one sold by DIYGadget (TIAO)? If not, does it use the same USB IC? I know it isn't your product, but I'm at my wit's end tring to get ONE of my 3 Jp1/Jp1.1 serial/JP1.2.3 USB cables to work on Win7-64

In any event does your magic JP1 adapter dongle work with the DIY product?
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18406
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can answer for Tommy here. Tommy's flash cables use an FTDI chip whereas DIY's use a TIAO chip, so they are completely different.

Tommy's USB JP1.2/3 flash cables work with 64-bit Win7 and Vista (I'm using one myself with 64-bit Vista). I would expect that DIY's flash based JP1.2/3 cables would work too.

None of the old fashioned EEPROM based JP1 USB cables work with the 64-bit OS yet (but we're working on it). These cables use a Delcom chip (both made by Tommy and made by DIY).

I don't recall the status of serial cables with 64-bit OS.
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Rob
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kcmurphy88



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Rob. I pretty much knew that the TIAO chips was used, which is too bad as their driver site is messed up (the files aren't right). FTDI seems to own the USB market right now, so that's a good choice.

Any news on the old LPT JP1 cables under Win7-64 (and, yes, there are motherboards with ISA LPT port headers; e.g. Gigabyte P55-UDP4)? I get the LPT port to appear in Device Mangler, but IR just won't un-grey the JP1 choice. Win7 has an issue with the SYS file and won't let it load. I suspect that the report that it will in some compatibility setting (and/or with some OS lobotomy) was on a Win7-32 machine, because none of that works here.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what the status is regarding parallel (LPT) or serial cables with 64-bit systems.
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kcmurphy88



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
I don't know what the status is regarding parallel (LPT) or serial cables with 64-bit systems.


After some experimentation, here is what I think: neither IR.exe or RMIR.exe works due to the lack of a hardware port access module that will operate in 64-bit mode. PortTalk.sys was the name in RMIR and I think another one in IR.exe. Without this, you cannot bit-bang the parallel port.

This is unlikely to change for three reasons: 1) not a lot of call for parallel port software anymore, and 2) even if someone wanted to write something, it wouldn't have the same API as RMIR (or whatever) expects, and 3) there's too many layers of software, security and whatnot to reach through.

Basically, LPT bit-banging is over with 64-bit machines. I'd expect that people will either give up or get some XP machine to use for legacy tasks. (That's my solution.)
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Thomas



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:58 am    Post subject: Update 3/13/10 Reply with quote

This USB is turning out to be a can of worms!

I can plug in to USB host, enumerate, send and receive to UART at 38400 baud (for flash memory), but the windows driver, usbser.sys, is deficient in that it does not handle RTS handshaking. And I have not found any workaround. Writing or modifying the driver is possible, perhaps.

It is also possible that adding HID class code (and using HID driver) can fix this. Microchip has issued a revised package of application/demo software, written in visual C++, which requires .NET framework 2 or 3. There are some other possibilities, third-party developers who have projects that may pertain to this issue. I am still deep in the research stage.

For now, for JP1 users, Tommy's adapter looks to be the best solution.
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Thomas



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Update 6/1 Reply with quote

Short version: not much progress, mostly frustration and annoyance .... :(

I am using PIC18F2455 to debug code (14K50 does not have debug function) and can read/write to EEPROMs or flash memory. The catch is, IR issues RTS handshake to cause the JP1.x remotes to 'reset' into serial communications mode, and nothing I have tried so far will pass that RTS through Microchip's USB port. I am using a momentary contact switch to emulate that for my testing. And seeking a high-tech solution.

The issue is the MS driver, usbser.sys, which has some anomalies and does not function identically to the FTDI chip.

Microchip is releasing their MCP2200 USB-UART interface, but I haven't received mine yet - hoping that they will also have a patch or a revised driver to resolve this, soon. Meanwhile, I am learning all the wrong ways to ennumerate USB CDC devices :)
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Kevin Timmerman
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Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 142
Location: West Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MCP2200 handshake lines are used for flow control to the local buffer - they are not controlled by the host. It's a rather useless chip.

There are several solutions to the RTS problem. I have a JP1 interface and IR Widget combo working on 18F2550 and 18F13K50. Not ready for release yet - have some cleanup to do.
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tennessee titan



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kcmurphy88 wrote:
I'd expect that people will either give up or get some XP machine to use for legacy tasks. (That's my solution.)
I think a new cable would be a lot more convenient, and cheaper too!
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Thomas



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Progress Reply with quote

Kevin Timmerman wrote:
The MCP2200 handshake lines are used for flow control to the local buffer - they are not controlled by the host. It's a rather useless chip.

I re-read the preliminary datasheet - no mention of what the chip cannot do. Shame, it coulda been a contendah. Cost-competitive with FTDI and capable of firmware revisions. Looking forward to your solutions.
TC
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Thomas



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:47 pm    Post subject: Not quite done with this horse... Reply with quote

I took a long break and tackled this issue again. Using a more sophisticated PIC18F2455 chip with debug capabilities, I have gotten the JP1.2/3 flash memory routine working, along with a USB bootloader. I have learned entirely too much about USB and descriptors.

Code length started at about 7800 instructions, which nearly fills a PIC18F14k50 chip. Converted to assembler and whittled down (so far) to about 3800 instructions, there's now enough room to include routines for EEPROM remotes.

Still to do: get the RST issue resolved, optimize code, merge the EEPROM routines, test, test, test. The plan is to use low-speed USB and minimal parts count, possibly with an activity light. Microchip does provide a 'USB bootload' manager program for the PC, supposedly it works with 64 bit Windows. We shall see......
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Tom Carlson
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while, so remind me Tom, when you talk to the flash based remotes, are you using the same standard serial comm that we use with our regular JP1.x cables? Or are you using something else?

The reason I ask is that we've started seeing new flash remotes, that still have a Samsung S3F8 chip, that won't communicate using the standard cables and standard comm routine.
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Thomas



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob,
I am using the stock IR program and DLL, over USB as a virtual COM port. Had not been following any discussion regarding new S3F8 remotes. The advantage of rolling your own firmware is that you can adjust (hopefully) for such issues.

I am just currently using a push button to get the remote into program mode, but I expect that I can find a way to emulate the reset pulse.

Every step of this project has been a struggle, mainly because I have never tackled USB before - very hard to debug when it refuses to work. Now trying to implement the EEPROM part, then find a way to detect and select it when necessary.

The software end ought to be less problematic, 32 and 64 bit drivers, IR and Microchip's bootloader utility.
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carsonlittle



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The advantage of rolling your own firmware is that you can adjust (hopefully) for such issues.

I am just currently using a push button to get the remote into program mode, but I expect that I can find a way to emulate the reset pulse.

The software end ought to be less problematic, 32 and 64 bit drivers, IR and Microchip's bootloader utility.

Thomas, Rob,

I apologize for resurrecting this very old thread, but I would be interested in working on this project (if development stopped and it still has some loose ends)

I have been reading the posts about using a PIC processor to integrate the IRWidget and cable into an all-in-one solution, and I believe the work Thomas has done so far would be very useful.

With a PIC in the picture, there will be no need to have two separate widgets and cable for programming.

I will be making separate posts about my suggestion but I wanted to know if either of you are willing to share this project with me.
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carsonlittle



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy Tyler wrote:
(2) a PIC or ATMEL processor that does it all, in which case we could go with the HID driver. Either approach would be cost competitive with using the Delcom chip. This doesn't sound like rocket science to me, but then it never does to those who don't know how to do it. Major issue: Flash uploading is in large packets of data, whereas EEPROM uploading is limited to 8 or 16 bytes per packet, with a pause while that packet is transferred from a receive buffer into the EEPROM. Are there simple handshake signals that would enable the interface to control the data transfer rate to accommodate this, without problematic changes to the IR software?

If anyone reading this with PIC or ATMEL programming experience is looking for a nice little project that will endear him (or her, Vicky) to the JP1 forum, I will volunteer to help with defining objectives, digging up specs, and all hardware chores, including prototypes for development.


Tommy ,

I apologize for resurrecting this very old thread, but I would be interested in working on this project.

It would be wonderful if we could speak over the phone to exchange some thoughts but I want it to be a "all-in-one" PIC solution - using those nice USB capable PICs. I also have a PickKit3 and OpenProg that I built myself.

The code will be in C18 but I would like to restrict the source code to people who actively contribute to this project (HEX will be available to everyone). Projects I have worked on in the past have been ripped off before by small time overseas hobby shops that openly sell these projects at a profit without contributing anything back.

I also have a scope at school that I can use.

I am interested in JP1 because the "learning" remote I DIY can only handle RC5 and I am fed up trying to implement NEC and SIRC is so poorly documented that I would rather focus on the JPx project that works.

Since the Microchip HID framework does not have a working demo of implementing all 5 pins of a serial port, I might have to come up with a way to control a GPIO pin to put the remote in programming mode (we can discuss that in details, and how to integrate it with IR)

Looking forward to working with you.
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