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New One For All Xsight Remotes
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aberguerand
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Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 257
Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland

                    
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Provided the USB trafic is not encrypted, SniffUSB could be useful to analyze the exchange between the PC and the XSight.
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MaximusPlank



Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 87
Location: Southern California

                    
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Does anyone know of a device that you can use to capture the data being sent through a USB cable, or have any ideas about how we could make one? The idea being that we'll need to capture the data being sent into and from the Xsight remote in order to reverse engineer it and come up with our own tools.
http://www.topshareware.com/USB-Monitor-3ML-Lite-download-51954.htm
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've played with the XSight Touch a little bit but not enough for a complete report. Initial impressions in no particular order:

(1) Initial programming from the remote itself is easy and there's a pretty large library of codes pre-loaded;
(2) As with most UEIC setup codes, they are somewhat inadequate in their lack of discretes (power and inputs both) and other odds and ends;
(3) Programming using the usb-PC-internet interface is straightforward, but also relies on built-in setup codes (or at least setup codes in UEIC's library which I suppose may get downloaded during the process);
(4) First major complaint: you cannot supplement a UEIC setup code directly with learned signals as you can a Harmony. While programming at the PC, you can learn new functions to your Harmony directly and supplement your setup code/upgrade. In the XSight, you have to complete your PC setup, disconnect it, and then you can learn additional functions to the remote. Then you have to go BACK to the PC, be careful to download the setup from your remote and not the setup that you just saved, and use those new functions in macros and "activity" setup. It's a much more torturous path;
(5) Setting up activities is straightforward, not unlike the Harmony;
(6) I won't go into the look and feel much. It's not unlike the Harmony ONE. If you like one (as do I), you're likely to like the other - I do not dispute that it is a fingerprint magnet, but it feels solid and looks good (to me) and I like the button layout. The XSight gets bonus points for having dedicated color buttons;
(7) Seems to work well. Pointing is not crucially important;
(8) Charging cradle holds the remote sort of upright (at and angle), while the Harmony ONE cradle holds the remote horizontal. I personally prefer the Harmony design since when the XSight is sticking up in the cradle, it's possible to knock it over, while the Harmony is already lying horizontally, it has nowhere to topple.
(9) Second complaint (not as major as the first, but significant): An extremely limited library of icons for favorite channels. Perhaps this is simply due to its newness, as the Harmony has a phalanx of third-party icon-makers and the XSight hasn't been out there very long, but their default icons for the major networks are poor;
(10) Requires a touch to activate the backlight/touchscreen (The Harmony is motion-activated);
(11) Has a weird new (at least I've never seen it before) "slide bar" beneath the Touchscreen. Works like the "slide bar" on the side of a laptop's touchpad for scrolling between pages of the touchscreen. Great idea, but finicky in how well it works. Sometimes I have to rub and rub and rub until finally the page changes. Got to see whether there is a sensitivity setting for this (like there is for the touchscreen);
(12) I have no comment about the RF capability. I have not bought the extender that is supposed to come with this European XSight so I cannot test it. I find it interesting that the US model is claiming direct RF control of DirecTV boxes, and this European XSight has DirecTV available in its code library, so I wonder if it will transmit DirecTV codes ...uhhhh.... directly, like the US version is supposed to. I have no way to test that (unless I walk around the neighborhood and find a house with a DTV antenna on its roof and ask the owner if I can come in and test my remote Rolling Eyes ;

Overall, I'm predisposed to wanting to like it, and in general I do, but item (4) above really makes it a PITA to program. You have a setup code that works mostly, and all you want to do is learn a few discretes to fill it out, but you cannot. You have to disconnect, supplement the setup code with learned signals, then RE-connect to the software, save your remote's image as your NEW file, and only THEN can you use those learned codes in your Activity and Macro setup. In the Harmony, you learn while it's plugged in and it adds the functions to the device you're programming real-time.

Hopefully the US edition for Acoustic Research will have some of these issues addressed.

Edit: added 7March2009
(13) Activity setup is nice. You can build a macro of significant length (I did not test how many steps, but I used up to 10) and individually tailor delays between each step.
(14) Macros: You can build a macro of any sequence on any button or have it create a new soft button for you. Nice for the power OFF function which is NOT automated on the Power button, like in the Harmony. Unfortunately, the macros are ONLY device-specific, so you have to build the same macro from scratch for each device. There is a de facto workaround, if you assign your "all off" macro to a function that is always mapped to the same device, like in every activity, my receiver is active for some buttons, but I have yet to find a button that can perform this function "organically". (I'm NOT going to assign an "all off" macro to one of the volume keys!). So given that you have to build the same (or a very similar) macro in several device modes, it would be nice if there was a "duplicate macro@ capability, but there is not, so you have to build each macro sequence step-by-step.
(15) AFAI can tell, it does NOT remember the device state! For those devices that do not have discretes, this is a HUGE problem. Out-of-sync conditions are extremely likely. (I guess I should just leave the d@mn#d FIOS box "ON" continuously - folks have measured that its "shutdown" power draw is only about 5% less than when it's "ON")
(16) It may have been just me and my computer/internet connection last night, but the PC/Web interface seems to take a LOT of bandwidth. As the setup got more complex, the internet interface got REALLY slow, like you click to add a command to a macro, and it would take literally 30secs before that showed up on the screen and you could add the NEXT command. (and I've got FIOS! could be a limitation of my upload speed (?) limited to 5Kbs whereas download is 20) Will watch this closely.
(17) You cannot arrange (add, remove, move to front page) the soft keys for a device or activity (or if you can, I haven't figured out how to do it), so that you may not have those function that you will most readily want access to on the first page of soft buttons and have to go hunting for it through a bunch of superfluous ones.

Anyways, after more playing last night, I like it a LOT more, but still the PC interface is clunky.

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Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc: Pioneer CLD-D704.
Amazon Firestick
tape deck: Pioneer CT 1380WR (double cassette deck)
(But I still have to get up for my beer)


Last edited by Capn Trips on Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some amplification of items (5) and (15) above:

Although Activity setup is straightforward, it is more tedious than the Harmony ONE. The Harmony Activity setup sort of handwalks you through ("Do you want device 'A' on? Do you need to set an input on device 'B'? Do you want all other devices OFF"? etc.). Contributing to the effectiveness of this approach, the H1 tracks the state of each device.

In the XSight, you have greater flexibility in that you can assign ANY sequence of ANY commands to your Activity setup macro, but the downside is that YOU have to select the commands and create the sequence from whole cloth and as far as I can tell, a "power toggle" command is no different than a "Input DVD" command, and no state-tracking occurs - NOR does the XSight ask you if everything is working correctly, NOR does it have a "Help" button and logic sequence that would walk you through correcting an out-of-synch problem.

Additionally, the H1 has an automatically setup "All Off" sequence on the "Power" button (when you are in an activity) and remembering the state is crucial to making this work. In the XSight, you have to build your own "Power Off" macros, and as there is no state tracking, if you want to switch activities, you have to go through an "Off" sequence before starting up a new activity to have any chance of keeping the remote in synch with your system.

As I work with this remote, this state tracking is becoming the BIGGEST problem and potential deal-breaker. Crying or Very sad

Can they not licence the ToadTog protocol from the JP1 group and build it into the XSight software?

I'm a big UEIC fan and want this remote to do well, but right now, if I have to choose, it's gonna be the H1.
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Beginners - Read this thread first
READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!


Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc: Pioneer CLD-D704.
Amazon Firestick
tape deck: Pioneer CT 1380WR (double cassette deck)
(But I still have to get up for my beer)
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding to the previous list:
(18) Functions that are learned only are retained through an upload, manipulation, and download sequence if they are learned to a SOFT, USER-DEFINED key (appearing on the touchscreen). If you learn a function to one of the hard buttons, and then upload from the remote to the computer to manipulate your setup, and then download back to the remote, any function learned to a hard button is "overwritten" by the default function from the device setup code, so you have to re-learn any HARD buttons you need after each up/down-load sequence!
(19) There is no way to return to your "current" activity as there is in the Harmony. Such that if you go to "Devices" mode to individually control some device, or to "Settings" mode to learn a function or three, or even just shift to "Favorites" to access a few favorite channels, the only way to return to your previous "Activity" is by pressing that "Activity" button again, which sends all of the associated commands again, even if unnecessary, potentially resulting in out-of synch. Again, either having a way to track the states of the devices OR a Harmony-like option to "Return to current Activity" would be REALLY useful.

I know that constant comparisons to Harmony get old quickly, but that is the de facto standard, and if the XSight handled these issues in a different but equally-effective way, I'd certainly give them a fair shot, but as it stands, this remote's NEGATIVES vs. the Harmony outweigh its POSITIVEs (the color buttons?)

And being a JP1/UEIC kind-of guy (I have written disparagingly about Harmony in these very fora in the past) I really WANT the XSight to force my Harmony onto eBay, but not right now.
_________________
Beginners - Read this thread first
READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!


Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc: Pioneer CLD-D704.
Amazon Firestick
tape deck: Pioneer CT 1380WR (double cassette deck)
(But I still have to get up for my beer)
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capn,

Now that the xsight is widely available in the US, are you up for putting a usb sniffer (a few posts back) on your's so we can see how this thing ticks?
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kcmurphy88



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Los Angeles

                    
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
Now that the xsight is widely available in the US, are you up for putting a usb sniffer (a few posts back) on your's so we can see how this thing ticks?
Cap'n may be busy, but I've done that. Used this USB sniffer.

Basically, this is the USB stream to download a somewhat complicated Home Theater setup (Denon 3808ci, DirecTV hr20, hr21(unit2), Panny DVD, BD30K, Roku, Sony KDS60A2000 TV, Popcorn A100, Oppo DVD).

Probably need to simplify this, or have someone else do it with a new unit and build up. Verbose file. Looks at first glance as if devices and keys are assigned in blocks.

File here (zip)

I'd be indebted to anyone who can figure out how to open one of these remotes. I think I see tabs, but I cannot seem to get them to open.
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DirecTV since 1994 // HR20-700 (1TB) // HR21-700 (1TB) // Samsung PN59D7000 // Denon AVR3808CI // Panasonic DMP-BDT110 // Roku XDS // WD HDLive // RS15-1994 JP1.0 remote // Wired Ethernet // BA Micro90x 5.1
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kcmurphy88



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Los Angeles

                    
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, anyone know what the 4x2 header pads visible in the battery compartment are for? Is this JTAG?
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DirecTV since 1994 // HR20-700 (1TB) // HR21-700 (1TB) // Samsung PN59D7000 // Denon AVR3808CI // Panasonic DMP-BDT110 // Roku XDS // WD HDLive // RS15-1994 JP1.0 remote // Wired Ethernet // BA Micro90x 5.1
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mdavej
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anybody wants an xsight color for $75 shipped in the US, PM me.

Hey kc, I see you've got a 60A2000 too. I was reminded how wonderful this set is when I saw the new Ken Burns show about national parks earlier tonight. Just breath-taking.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched that Ken Burns National Parks show too. It was magnificent.
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bodhi78



Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 3
Location: So Cal

                    
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really interested in this remote, but still waiting to hear if UEI is going to update the software to provide power state tracking. Does anybody know if they have plan to do that? Thanks.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last I heard they were looking into it.
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