Pioneer plasma TV question

irv6744 · Post by **irv6744** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:56 pm

i want to add a button to my pioneer 1166 mix code with a sub 90.
i learned the missing button but now i don't know what to do with it.

the learn is:

Dev/OBC/hex/EFC
170 90 a5 231
175 116 d1 132

i tried adding various combinations to my remote but the button doesn't respond at all.

what do i need to use.

thanks

irv6744 · Post by **irv6744** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:59 pm

i've tried learning the original button to different buttons on the 7800 and when i do, the button does not light up when i press it.
what does that mean.

my goal is get the one command transferred over to the 6131 which now is my primary remote.

Post by **vickyg2003** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:13 am

Irv, When you get information from a learn, sometimes you need to do some massaging to get the information usable for the underlying upgrade.

We need to see the learn, and we need to know what setup code you are trying to use this new learned data with.

irv6744 · Post by **irv6744** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:36 pm

Vicky

my ir file is here

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=7141

thanks for your help

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:40 pm

You have learned two keys:
device 170, OBC 90, EFC 232, hex A0 00
device 175, OBC 116, EFC 132, hex D1 01

You should be able to test the identification in your 7800 by doing keymoves, similar to the ones you already have for TV by using setup 1166, and entering the hex codes given above.

1166 by the way is not an official setup code number, and doesn't really mean much. It looks like you got the upgrade from here

I find it helpful to delete any previous learns before learning a new signal, using the 976 command. I mention that because perhaps the key you are trying to learn is neither of the two mentioned above, but is instead the "gap" protocol, which is the third learn listed.

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:48 pm

In the uploaded IR file, Pioneer mix (protocol 17F) is being used currently on C7 for TV/1166.
So to use that learned signal, I'd think it needs to be added to KM and reload the upgrade and make sure to delete the learned signal since its presence will interfere.

I don't know Pioneer Mix, one of the most COMPLICATED protocols out there, but KM says
for 7800 to enter 2 device codes and 2 commands
for 6131 to enter 2 device codes and up to 4 commands
The keymoves in the IR file show 0, 1 and 3 in one of the hex bytes, consistent with some idea of two or more devices.
Devices 170 and 175 are in the learned signals.

Further, KM help speaks how to use those double signals

Then on the Functions sheet, you indicate which style of signal to
use for each function. Do this by entering one of the following
values in the byte2 column:

0 = single-style signal (using device code 1)
1 = double-style signal (using dev1/cmd1 in the first half)
3 = double-style signal (using dev1/cmd2 in the first half)

That signal with 170 followed by 175 probably requires "1" in byte2 column which will give hex A5 01 for the command.
That's as far as I'm willing to stick my neck out

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:59 pm

The link I gave above is a "1166" upgrade. I loaded it into RM, and used it as a template to see how the the OBC/Hex codes vary. Based on that, I'm pretty sure that the 170 command has 00 as the second byte. The 175 command could use either 01 or 03 as the second byte, (at least RM accepts 03) but the 175 commands in the 1166 upgrade all use 01 for the second byte.
Irv could try all combinations of 00, 01, 02, and 03 without investing too much time.

ETA: After looking at this some more (not based on any knowledge of the protocol, but rather on patterns in the upgrades and Irv's keymoves) I guess that the needed keymove will turn out to be either D1 01 or D1 03. That's a double-style signal with devices 170.175, command 211 (D1 01) or command 0 (D1 03)

Post by **vickyg2003** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:24 am

Wow, what an odd protocol. Based on the protocol ID and the 4 bytes of fixed data, it looks like this is using a Pioneer MIX 170,175 cmd1-211 cmd2-90. I thought it was odd that you'd have all those keymoves on TV1066 until I tried working on this myself. Every OBC I entered turned itself into a keymove!

You're going to need some of the big guys like Mike or Rob to help you out of this. What an odd protocol!

Post by **The Robman** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:38 am

irv6744 wrote:i learned the PC button to the '7' and to '4L' on the remote. first of all when i press those buttons, there is no light on the remote. second, i would like to add PC to the dvice definition and need to know what to do.

I can explain the first problem. The URC-7800 (like the 15-1994) is an old remote and there's a bug in it's firmware that causes learned signals to not work when they're used in a device mode where a protocol upgrade is being used.

In your case, in TV mode you are using TV/1166 which uses a protocol upgrade called $017F, so you cannot use learned signals in this device mode. This is also true for CD mode (as CD/1167 uses the $013F protocol upgrade) but the other device modes are all fine for learned signals.

[Note: you have an upgrade called TV/1000 that uses the $0144 protocol upgrade, but this upgrade isn't being used, so you could delete both it and the protocol].

The second problem you encountered is that there is a bug in KM that causes all the buttons in this upgrade to become keymoves when you change the remote to the URC-7800. I had to go back to an older version of KM to edit the upgrade.

Now, onto the upgrade itself. It uses 170 and 175 as the device codes, which matches what you learned, so that's good. This protocol allows for two "part 1" OBCs (ie, the OBC found in the first part of two part signals) and the upgrade has 211 entered as the first one (and the second one's blank). However, the learned signal that you got for the PC button uses OBC 90 in the first part, so we'll need to add that to the upgrade by entering it as the 2nd "part 1" OBC in the setup tab (ie, cmd2).

Next, we need to enter this new function in the functions tab. To do so you would first enter the OBC of the 2nd part of the 2-part signal (ie, 116) then in the byte2 column you would enter "3" (ie, 3 = double-style signal (using dev1/cmd2 in the first half)).

I have modified your IR file for you. I have replaced the TV/1166 upgrade with the new one that I just did, which has the PC function programmed to the "7" button, and I've deleted all of the TV/1166 keymoves, except for the ON/OFF functions that were programmed to 2L and 3L.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=7150

If you want to re-arrange the buttons or add any new functions to the KM file, you should edit it using RM (given that KM is broken for this protocol).

irv6744 · Post by **irv6744** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:54 pm

wow!

i can't believe the energy you guys expend to help me with my remote..

Rob: the ir file you posted still does not work for button 7.
nothing happens.
but at least the light does go on when i press it so that's an improvement i guess.

would it help things if i learned my PC button to an 8910 after i install tv 1166 to it.
i deleted tv 1000 from that remote since i no longer use it.

thanks

irv6744 · Post by **irv6744** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:36 am

subsequent to my prior post, i loaded tv 1166 onto my 8910 and then i learned the oem input PC button to tv7 on my 8910 and the learn works.

the ir file is here.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=7155

what entries can i try in the device definition in order to be able use it on my 6131.

i did try obc 90 with A5 00 on the 8910 after i deleted the learn but with no success.
as you can probably tell, input 5 uses cmd1(obc211) obc 123 21 01 and input 6 uses cmd2 (obc90) obc 127 01 03.

it's late now but is it possible the learn obc 90 is byte 2 - cmd2 and i need to use obc 116 with D1 03 .

thanks

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:16 am

irv6744 wrote: is it possible the learn obc 90 is byte 2 - cmd2 and i need to use obc 116 with D1 03 .

I think that is exactly what is needed.

Post by **The Robman** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:59 am

Sorry, I typo'd the code when entering it into KM, I entered the OBC as 111 rather than 116.

Also, just FYI, you don't need to have any particular upgrade loaded into a remote in order for learning to work, so you could have learned the button using your URC-8910 without first loading the upgrade into the URC-8910.

I have updated the upgrade file...
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=1128

And here's a quick upgrade that you can paste into the IR file for your URC-7800...

Upgrade Code 0 = 1C 8E (TV/1166) Pioneer Plasma Generic (KM v8.44)
7F 00 F2 5A 1F AA 34 0A A5 00 00 0F 00 8F 00 95
00 84 00 21 01 01 03 D1 03 00 00 00 00 AF 00 2F
00 6D 00 F7 00 77 00 C7 00 27 00 2E 00 AE 00 AD
00 C3 01 96 00 16 00 56 00 D6 00
End

Regarding the discussion about swapping the OBCs, for 2-part Pioneer signals, the OBC that goes with the 170 device code needs to be entered in the Setup tab and the OBC that goes with the 175 device code needs to be entered in the Functions tab.

irv6744 · Post by **irv6744** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 pm

Rob:

so do you agree with 3fg that i need to add obc 116 with byte 2 = 3 to get D1 03.

i already have obc 90 as cmd2 (obc) in my setup to cover some of the other buttons.

thanks

Post by **The Robman** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:54 pm

Yes, but I've already updated the upgrade file, and just to confirm it, I've edited the upgrade block in my previous post so that the D1 03 code is in red to highlight it.

As I explained earlier, my original upgrade would have worked if I hadn't have typo'd the code, but I guess I shouldn't feel too bad as nobody else noticed the typo.