Problem uploading to IR

[GOGGS75]

Hi,

I just purhased a new JP1.2/1.3 cable from Tommy Tyler and have been having problems uploading different upgrades.

The problem is that the upload seems to be successful according to IR but not when tested. Most of the buttons on my URC7556 remote are passing the wrong signal to the appliance.

Three different upgrades follow a similar pattern when tested. The number buttons all work except for 3 and 4. The button 4 tells the appliance I pressed 3 and the button 3 tells the appliance I pressed 4. All other buttons are scattered around over the wrong buttons.

I carried out a test that looks to show something is going wrong with the upload. I used the learning feature of the remote to get the code from button 3 on three difference appliances. When downloading these to IR they match the codes that the upgrades try to upload from IR. This leaves it looking like the code is assigned to the wrong button when uploaded.


I have a Vista 64 bit PC and have changed IR to Windows XP compatability. This made no difference.

Does anyone have any suggesstions ?

Thanks

Goggs75

[vickyg2003]

The most common causes of key scrambling

1) Wrong Remote selected in KM or RM (user error)
2) Keymap set to Alternate instead of Standard (General Tab IR)
3) RDF problems
4) MAP problems

I found a new MAP for the URC-7556 in the RDF area and it carried this warning.

When using the layout screen to assign functions be aware that Volume and Channel have been transposed, (i.e. Ch+ in the image has the Vol+ button over it.
The same is true of the Prev/Rwd and Next/Fwd buttons. If you follow the text you'll be fine, it's just the position on the image that is back to front.

[/quote]

[3FG]

Internal to the remote, the key is identified by a numeric scan code, e.g. "vol +" might be 0x04 (4 in hexadecimal). But the scan codes differ from remote to remote, and IR uses a *.RDF file to make the proper assignments of scan code to key name.

For example, here's a line from the Radio Shack 15-135:
Guide=$27,menu:Menu=$26,display:Info=$28,Exit=$61.

I think the behavior you are seeing is caused by using the wrong RDF file. I'm not sure how this is happening.

Have you checked that the signature of the remote as detected by IR during a download is correct? Also, I don't see URC7556 listed in the chart of remotes available on this site; are you sure that is the right model number? (Sometimes models are specific to a region of the world.)

[mathdon]

There is a URC-7556, it is the OneForAll Digital 5 currently available in the UK. I have one, bought a week or so ago as I felt I should have the current UK remotes for testing, but so far I haven't even got round to putting batteries in it. I have downloaded the RDF etc and set up IR and RM to be able to try it, so I will investigate from my end and report later.
_____________
Graham

[3FG]

The remote signature is 10751075, and this is shared with the URC-7555. The signature is displayed on the raw data tab in IR.

It looks to me like the standard RDF distribution includes a RDF for the 7555, but doesn't include the "not extensively tested" RDF for the 7556.

So you could specifically download the 7556 RDF, and put the .map and .jpg files in the image folder, and the RDF in the rdf folder. Maybe that will give a different behavior, although the two rdf files are pretty similar, including button assignments. Or, if you are already using the 7556 RDF, perhaps try using the 7555 RDF.

One difference in the two RDF files is that the 7556 RDF contains
KeyMap=$015.5.1.0.0 (Standard;Alternate)
while the 7555 RDF does not.

The volume punch through device are also different, but that shouldn't cause your problem.

[vickyg2003]

One difference in the two RDF files is that the 7556 RDF contains
KeyMap=$015.5.1.0.0 (Standard;Alternate)
while the 7555 RDF does not.

That is a huge difference and will cause the user problems if they did not start with a download from the original remote. The default is alternate, and if set to alternate will scramble the keys. The behavior is really odd because the amount of scrambling will differ depending on the device ID that was assigned. That entry needs to be added to the RDF.

[mathdon]

OK, I've just uploaded a device (Onkyo TX-SR606 though I don't think it is relevant) to the AMP button on my URC-7556, from a setup file prepared originally for my URC-7781, and everything works properly. I was using the RDF etc for the URC-7556 from the Files/RDF section. I did not need to change any settings in IR.exe. So I think GOGGS75 is doing something wrong.

I assume you have constructed an upgrade using RemoteMaster. You did set BOTH IR.exe AND RemoteMaster to URC-7556, I hope? Did you assign the functions to the correct keys in RM or did you use AutoAssign? If you used AutoAssign, did you check that the assignments were correct? If you did all that, could you post the .rmdu file in the Diagnostics section, with a link in this thread, and tell me, for some keys that are wrong, (a) what signal they should send, and (b) what signal they do send. By "signal", I mean the hex code as shown on the Functions page of RM. I will then try to reproduce the error on my remote.

Edit: One more thing. I hope you downloaded the remote to IR.exe, added your upgrade and then uploaded the result. Just selecting the remote in IR.exe, adding the upgrade and uploading it to your remote, without ever downloading your own remote first, is likely to cause problems. RDFs on their own usually do not have enough info to create a valid setup from scratch, they just provide IR.exe with the info it needs to make sense of the download from your remote.
________________
Graham

[3FG]

Vicky,
I don't understand your post. As far as I can see, RDF files typically don't have a keymap entry. The 7556 RDF, which is not in the standard distribution, is unusual in having the keymap entry.

So when you speak of default behavior, what do you mean? If there is no keymap keyword, does IR default to standard or alternate? I would have assumed standard, but your post may be saying that IR would choose alternate.

[vickyg2003]

3fg wrote:
As far as I can see, RDF files typically don't have a keymap entry. The 7556 RDF, which is not in the standard distribution, is unusual in having the keymap entry.

I believe the keymap feature was first seen in JP1.2 remotes. Many JP1.2 and JP1.3 remotes have the keymap feature. Obviously the urc-7556 is one has the feature because it was identified in the urc-7555 which has the same signature.

If you do a FILE->New and there is no keymap entry in the RDF, the new image will fill with the default byte value, and this causes the KEYMAP bit to = ALTERNATE value. The whole purpose of including the KEYMAP entry in the RDF is to get it to default to set to STANDARD on a file->new.

When I was talking about behavior, I was talking about the degree of scrambling. The degree of scrambling will vary depending on what deviceID you assign to the upgrade. If the 3 is shooting the 8 function, and then you change the device upgrade, the 3 will shoot something else. Its really strange behavior. This only effects the upgrades, it doesn't effect the built in codes.


You can see this in the 8820 family, and the Atlases.

[GOGGS75]

Hi,

Thanks for all your help.

I have managed to get the codes working after downloading the new rdf for the URC7556 and changing the keymap on IR to 'standard'. It has been set as 'alternative'.

When initially downloading my new URC7556 to IR it had recognised it as the URC7555. I also noticed that Remote Master only had the URC7555 listed but KeyMap Master had URC7555/7556 listed. This had left me assuming the only difference was that the URC7555 was silver whereas the URC7556 is black.

Cheers

Goggs75

[mathdon]

One difference in the two RDF files is that the 7556 RDF contains
KeyMap=$015.5.1.0.0 (Standard;Alternate)
while the 7555 RDF does not.

This is the correct way round.

I believe the keymap feature was first seen in JP1.2 remotes. Many JP1.2 and JP1.3 remotes have the keymap feature. Obviously the urc-7556 is one has the feature because it was identified in the urc-7555 which has the same signature.

No, it is the other way round. The 7555 RDF is the one that is missing the Keymap feature.

What is "Alternate Keymap"? It is a UEI "Anti Piracy" measure. It is turned on if the OS of the remote thinks that your actions are designed to discover the codes in the remote, rather than to use it "for real". On the URC-7781, which has an LCD display, you can turn it off through a hidden menu in which you select "Anti Piracy - Off". I think Vicky means that if you use an RDF without ever downloading your remote then the Keymap will (may?) default to Alternate - but RDFs were never intended to be used in this way. I am sure that new remotes are always set to "Standard", since the user is not supposed to be aware of the Anti Piracy feature.
________________
Graham

[mathdon]

I also noticed that Remote Master only had the URC7555 listed but KeyMap Master had URC7555/7556 listed. This had left me assuming the only difference was that the URC7555 was silver whereas the URC7556 is black.

Do not rely on appearances. I have the URC-7556 and URC-7525 (the UK remotes Digital 5 and Digital 2) in front of me. They are difficult to distinguish. They have the same casing in the same colo(u)r, and almost all the buttons are identical. Their insides are totally different, as they use different processors (7556 is an HCS08 processor, 7525 is S3F8 processor).

The user cannot add remotes to KeyMap Master but can do so to Remote Master. You just need to put the RDF, Map and Image files from the download in Files/RDF into the directories used by RemoteMaster (which by default are subdirectories of the one containing RM itself.
________________
Graham

[mr_d_p_gumby]

What is "Alternate Keymap"? It is a UEI "Anti Piracy" measure.

That "feature" has been around as long as JP1 has existed in one form or another. The newer remotes have a more complicated scrambling method, but even the old EEPROM remotes would scramble the keymap. However, back in those days we used to use the [FixedData] section of the RDF file to force the remote back to the standard keymap. I don't know why we've begun to give the user a choice to select the scrambled keymap. I'm not sure it makes any sense to me.

[The Robman]

I would tend to agree with Mike on this one.

[vickyg2003]

I noticed that Graham, shows this information in a block that is not editable. Can you use a mixture of the Fixed Data assigning the inforamtion, and the non-editable item in the General Tab to show exactly the keymap setting, so that we can still diagnose key scrambling by just asking the user what its set to? I routinely ignore fixed data problems because I don't know what the RDF creater had in mind when he/she developed the Fixed Data portion.