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alex750
Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 70 Location: Fayetteville AR USA |
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:31 pm Post subject: RCA RT2390 receiver: Missing some OEM codes |
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Device: RCA RT2390
Type of device: Home theater receiver (5.1 ch) with included speakers
Year: Not known precisely, circa 2000 IIRC. Sold primarily in USA via Wal-Mart. Discontinued.
JP1/UEI remote model: URC-6800B00
JP1 Cable?: Yes
OEM remote?: No
Checked file section?: Yes, found several partial matches (e.g. "RCA Master List"); used to build custom code--see below
Checked Remote Central?: Yes, found only RT2500/RT5000; did not use since this was duplicate material
Partially working setup code?: Yes, AMP/1054 (file is here)
Learning remote?: N/A
My questions:
(1) Is there a way to enter 16-bit EFCs manually? The 8-bit ones don't seem to work with this protocol.
(2) Failing (1), is there anyone with this unit who can provide the following EFCs or OBCs:
TUNE UP
TUNE DOWN
EQ
NIGHT
SUBWOOFER
POWER (toggle--I have the discretes, but don't want to use ToadTog unless I have no choice)
I have left spaces open for these in the "Functions" section of the KM file. |
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3FG Expert
Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 3367
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:56 am Post subject: |
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According to this file posted by Rob,
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=2778 tuner up is device 9 OBC 28, while tuner down is 9/29.
Now, about 16 bit and 8 bit EFCs, I know very little about this, but
1) I believe that better terminology is 5 digit and 3 digit. 16 bit implies that there are 65536 distinct EFCs, but I think that in some cases the 2 most significant decimal digits carry protocol and executor information, but have no function info. If so, there are fewer than 65536 combinations.
2) Again, I'm simply saying what I have inferred, but I think that to input 5 digit EFCs manually (by which I assume you mean using the remote keys, or alternatively, by directly entering them in to KM/RM), you have to have a newer remote which expects 5 digit EFCs. Using RM to look at your file, and then changing to a RS 15-135 remote, 5 digit EFCs are displayed, while for a 6800, only 3 digit EFCs are available. Note that the Hex bytes and fixed data are different for the two remotes, and that implies to me that the executors are different. |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | (1) Is there a way to enter 16-bit EFCs manually? The 8-bit ones don't seem to work with this protocol. |
This RCA device uses a combo code. You'll need to work with OBC/Device in this case. If you enter the OBC/Device in RM, the 5 digit EFC will be calculated for you.
Try these,
Code: |
Function OBC byte2/dev
TUNE UP 028 9
TUNE DOWN 029 9
POWER 059 12
EQ LEVEL 178 12
SUBWOOFER 181 12
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I think OBC 176 12 might be related to one of your other missing functions too, its function was listed as AUDIO in one of the upgrades I looked at. _________________ Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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alex750
Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 70 Location: Fayetteville AR USA |
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Missing discretes on RT2390 |
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Quote: | Now, about 16 bit and 8 bit EFCs, I know very little about this, but
1) I believe that better terminology is 5 digit and 3 digit. 16 bit implies that there are 65536 distinct EFCs, but I think that in some cases the 2 most significant decimal digits carry protocol and executor information, but have no function info. If so, there are fewer than 65536 combinations. |
Ah, cultural differences!
I'll agree "5 digit" and "3 digit" are more commonly used here...but to me this implies 100,000 (or 1000) possible EFCs, not 64K (or some subset thereof) or 256 respectively. I'll use the common terms from now on.
As for using 5-digit EFCs manually, I meant on the remote itself (i.e., pressing Setup and entering a 5 digit EFC). But since neither of my remotes (the 6800 and a URC-8910) can use these, it's a moot point.
The following discretes did work:
Code: | Function OBC Device
EQ LEVEL 178 12
SUBWOOFER 181 12 |
As for the others, no go. Just on a hunch, I also tried 028/12 and 029/12 for TUNE UP and TUNE DOWN. They didn't work either. 059/12 is already in use; it's POWER OFF.
However, I'm trying a different approach. My URC-6800 manual lists four different device codes for RCA receivers: AMP/0054, AMP/0360, AMP/0530 and AMP/0531. I've assigned each of these to a different device button, and for each one I'll go through all the possible (3 digit) EFCs. If I find one that works, I'll then grab my 8910 and learn it; once I'm done, I'll download the results back into IR where I should be able to obtain the OBC and device codes.
If that doesn't work, the 8910 has two more I can try: TUNER/1023 and TUNER/1254. In this case, I'd use the 6800 to learn any codes. |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | My URC-6800 manual lists four different device codes for RCA receivers: AMP/0054, AMP/0360, AMP/0530 and AMP/0531. I've assigned each of these to a different device button, and for each one I'll go through all the possible (3 digit) EFCs. If I find one that works, I'll then grab my 8910 and learn it; once I'm done, I'll download the results back into IR where I should be able to obtain the OBC and device codes.
If that doesn't work, the 8910 has two more I can try: TUNER/1023 and TUNER/1254. In this case, I'd use the 6800 to learn any codes. |
If I were going to do this, I'd check out any gaps in the various OBC sequences and go 10 in either direction of the high/low of each grouping. _________________ Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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alex750
Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 70 Location: Fayetteville AR USA |
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: Two more codes found... |
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After searching through the codes on my 6800, I found these:
Code: | Function OBC Device
TUNE UP 032 12
TUNE DOWN 034 12 |
They were on AMP/0054. The other three yielded nothing new. I have put them into my upgrade-in-progress.
Now for the 8910... |
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alex750
Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 70 Location: Fayetteville AR USA |
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: Hexed! |
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Found another code, this one for the power toggle. It was on RCVR/1254 on my 8910...
Code: | Function Hex EFC 5
POWER TOGGLE $C0 3B 17662 |
...and there's the rub. As stated above, neither of my OFA remotes can use 5 digit EFCs; it was on the POWER key of RCVR/1254, and attempting to learn this signal with the 6800 yielded $CF 3B (OBC/DEV 059/12), the power-off discrete!
Doing a keymove on the 8910, and downloading the result in IR, yielded the correct hex--which also displayed as 059/12. In other words, this protocol (and KM, and RM) thinks $C0 3B and $CF 3B are the same, whereas the 5 digit EFCs are different, and the actual device reacts differently. For all I know, manually entering a 3 digit EFC may produce hex starting with $00. The only way to get this code into the KM upgrade was to either (a) enter the hex directly in the OBC column, or (b) switch to 5 digit EFCs. Once this was done, and placed into IR and uploaded to the 6800, it worked.
Except now I have at least 256, and possibly 4096 (256 OBCs each for hex starting with $00 through $F0) codes to try for the remaining functions (SAVE, NIGHT and STEREO/MONO), and no way of entering them, save putting them in a few at a time into KM and then trying them out...or purchasing an OEM remote. |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Except now I have at least 256, and possibly 4096 (256 OBCs each for hex starting with $00 through $F0) codes to try for the remaining functions (SAVE, NIGHT and STEREO/MONO), and no way of entering them, save putting them in a few at a time into KM and then trying them out...or purchasing an OEM remote. |
There is a strategy to this. You look at the upgrade in KM or RM and look at the various OBC's For the most part they are grouped together with small gaps here or there. Exploring the gaps in the obc sequence, and expanding the sequence by 10 on either end will cut the search time considerably.
You'll have a very useful upgrade when you are through.
Good Luck _________________ Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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alex750
Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 70 Location: Fayetteville AR USA |
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject: Remaining codes found (set status to RESOLVED) |
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I finally broke down and got an OEM remote, figuring I'd need it anyway...
At any rate, here are the remaining codes:
Code: | Function OBC Device
STEREO/MONO 065 12
SAVE 021 12
NIGHT MODE 177 12 |
The finished upgrade, in RM form, is here. I'd been having some problems with Excel 97 lately; an incompatibility with my antivirus program is my guess...
At no point did any of the built-in device codes for either the 6800 (AMP/0054, AMP/0360, AMP/0530, AMP/0531) or the 8910 (TUNER/1023, TUNER/1254) yield any sort of working EFC, other than the ones already stated above; most likely, these built-in device codes already used some sort of combo protocol. I even tried two other remotes, with different codes for RCA VCRs, DVD players, and even one tape deck.
Even assuming I'd tried $CF for the first byte in RM, that would still have been a lot of guesswork.
Still, I'm grateful for all the suggestions. Again, as stated above, some of them did pay off. |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Hey Alex, your upgrade doesn't show your three new finds. Could you edit your file to include your three new codes.
alex750 wrote: | Even assuming I'd tried $CF for the first byte in RM, that would still have been a lot of guesswork. |
vickyg2003 wrote: | There is a strategy to this. You look at the upgrade in KM or RM and look at the various OBC's For the most part they are grouped together with small gaps here or there. Exploring the gaps in the obc sequence, and expanding the sequence by 10 on either end will cut the search time considerably. |
Let me show you what I was suggesting with actual numbers. It actually works pretty well. As you can see the inputs vary the DEV codes, so if I was looking for more inputs I'd look at different devices but for others, i'd look at the gaps in the OBC sequences.
Code: |
Dev OBC Function
12 32 tune up
12 34 tune down
12 42 power on
12 44 preset down
12 45 preset up
12 46 vol down
12 47 vol up
12 48 num 0
12 49 num 1
12 50 num 2
12 51 num 3
12 52 num 4
12 53 num 5
12 54 num 6
12 55 num 7
12 56 num 8
12 57 num 9
inputs vary by device
15 58 tv-input
08 58 cd-input
05 58 dvd-input
09 58 tape-input
14 58 vcr-input
12 58 tuner-input
07 58 sat-input
12 59 power off
12 59 power toggle
12 63 mute
12 71 digital
09 86 left arrow
09 87 right arrow
09 88 down arrow
09 89 up arrow
12 91 surround
12 178 eq
12 180 levels
12 181 subwoofer
12 225 setup
09 244 ok/exit |
What I wanted you to do was check any gaps in the OBC sequences and go up or down 10 from each group. This woud not have given you the SAVE function since it was 11 from the group
12 059 power toggle
12 063 mute
12 065 STEREO/MONO
12 177 NIGHT MODE
12 178 eq
12 180 levels _________________ Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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alex750
Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 70 Location: Fayetteville AR USA |
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: Oops! |
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I uploaded the wrong file! I had intended to use the one for the 6800, and instead got an old one for the 8910...
At any rate, here's the file with all the codes, for the 8910/9910.
Regarding your search methodology: Using it, I would have eventually stumbled upon STEREO/MONO and NIGHT fairly quickly...again, assuming I had stuck with $CF for the first byte. Typically, from all the unused OBCs, I would have tried every 16 first (e.g., $CF 0F, 1F, 2F, 3F...FF) then every 8 (second byte 07, 17, 27, 37...F7) then every 4 (03, 0B, 13, 1B, 23...FB) and so on.
The "gotcha" was, as stated above, the power toggle: it started with $C0. Distracted by this, I had been trying known OBC/device combinations from other RCA upgrades (e.g., 029/12, 040/9, etc.) with such "nonstandard" upper bytes ($C0, C7, 97, etc.), for example: $C0 1D, $C7 1D, $97 28 and so forth. Of course I didn't get anywhere!
Here's another surprise from the OEM remote: it alternates between 041/12 and 059/12 for a power toggle!
I checked this by learning the key twice with my 8910...sure enough, the first learn was 059/12 (discrete off) and the second was 041/12 (discrete on). In other words, UEI had already figured out the 'freakish' $C0 3B command in its TUNER/1254 setup code, which is where I got it. BTW, UEI's hacked toggle isn't perfect; sometimes the RT2390 will switch the input to TV on power-on; other times, to TUNER.
Guess this goes to show even seemingly 'orthodox' devices can have their oddities... |
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alex750
Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 70 Location: Fayetteville AR USA |
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: Updated RM file |
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Update:
Remaining OEM codes (CLEAR, GUIDE, RECORD, STOP, PAUSE), not used by the receiver itself, have been added. Also, the key layout has been changed to better reflect the OEM layout.
For your edification:
Code: | Function Device OBC
CLEAR 12 006
GUIDE 12 026
RECORD 12 023
STOP 12 031
PAUSE 12 025 |
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