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8910 - muliple protocols on same page?

 
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simonsezdothis



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:49 am    Post subject: 8910 - muliple protocols on same page? Reply with quote

Can someone help me with the following, to make sure I;m on the right track
With a URC8910 for example, can I have IR commands under the 8 "Source" buttons that may not necessarily share the same IR protocol as the transport buttons on the same "page"?

OR ...
Have IR commands under the Number keys that don't share the same protocol as the Transport buttons.

Hope that's making sense.
Regards
"S"
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you can easily accomplish this with keymoves.

Aren't you the person looking for single device remotes?

Most Jp1 remotes have 5 or more device buttons. Each device button can have its own definitions for the rest of the keys. Each device can send a mixture of IR type signals via keymoves. There is a lot of versatility here.
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: 8910 - muliple protocols on same page? Reply with quote

simonsezdothis wrote:
With a URC8910 for example, can I have IR commands under the 8 "Source" buttons that may not necessarily share the same IR protocol as the transport buttons on the same "page"?


It's too hard to guess what you mean since you're using such different terminology.

What's a "source" button? Do you mean the eight device buttons (TV, VCR, SAT, CBL, DVD, AUX, RCVR/AMP and CD)? In that case I wouldn't know what you mean by "IR commands under".

What's a "page"?

I'm not sure you mean the same thing by "protocol" that we mean.

"Transport buttons" ought to mean the eight buttons REW, PLAY, FWD, REC, PAUSE, F.REW, STOP and F.FWD. On the 8810, the built-in home theater mode gets that wrong. It leaves out F.REW and F.FWD. The extender corrects that. I think the same is true of the 8910, but I'm not sure.

simonsezdothis wrote:

OR ...
Have IR commands under the Number keys that don't share the same protocol as the Transport buttons.


I think you're asking about something similar to what the remote calls "home theater" mode. Within some arbitrary stupid restrictions, home theater mode lets you mix setup codes (which is probably closer to what you mean than "protocols"). If you use the extender, that replaces home theater mode with something much more flexible, that is more likely to let you mix things the way you want.

There is also a "device combiner" protocol you can use that gives other flexibility in mixing things.

The maximum flexibility in mixing things is achieved with KeyMoves. But if you relied on those alone you would run out of the limited amount of space reserved for keymoves.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bottom line though is this, regardless of what you really mean in your question (and I'll need to see your answers to John's questions to understand it) you can almost certainly do what you want with a remote like the URC-8910.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
you can almost certainly do what you want with a remote like the URC-8910.

AND a jp1 cable.

Maybe you can do what you want with an 8910 without the JP1 cable. But I'd need a much clearer understanding of what you really want to do, before I'd make any guess of whether you could manage without the cable.

Assuming an 8910 AND the cable, I agree with Rob. We don't need to really understand what you're trying to do, in order to be quite confident an 8910 plus JP1 cable can do it.
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underquark
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this an example of what you're trying to achieve?:

You select a device by pressing the SAT button.
Without changing device, you can have the number keys select a satellite channel, have the volume keys control your output volume (via TV or amplifier) and the transport keys start and control your video recorder.

Yes you can do all this with an 8910. Easiest to achieve it by programming via a JP1 cable. The main device on this "page" (if I understand your intention correctly) i.e. the device associated with the SAT device button is, in this case, satellite. The volume keys operate the output volume via VPT (Volume Punch Through) which is a feature of the basic 8910 remote and can be specifically programmed via JP1. The transport keys have their codes KeyMoved to them from where you have the video recorder codes assigned.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
The Robman wrote:
you can almost certainly do what you want with a remote like the URC-8910.

AND a jp1 cable.

Sorry, yes, I assumed we were talking about using JP1, but I guess that hadn't been explicitly stated.
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simonsezdothis



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi.
Sorry ... I guess we use different terminology here on the other side of the world! Thanks for all your replies. I will try a few things out as you're all very confident just about anything can be achieved.

I'll try and explain what I was trying to do more clearly anyway.
Yes ... I have the JP1 cable etc

So they're called Device buttons (the 8 buttons across the top used for selecting which component you wish to control). I didn't want to use the word Device as you also refer to Device Numbers. I would have called them Sources, as do Xantech on their URC2. Essentially you're selecting a "Source" input for the system you are controlling whether it be a Home Theatre amp or Display device like a Plasma.

When you select a "Device" using one of these buttons, (lets say DVD), then in my terminology the remote is now on the "DVD page" (a set of commands dedicated to operating the DVD player)


When you push a "Device" button (lets say DVD)I would like to send out an IR command to a switcher at the same time. So now on the "DVD page" we have a command to a Switcher under the Device Buttons, controls for the DVD player, and perhaps Amplifier Volume commands. All three types of commands could use different IR Protocols. I was just making sure you could do this OK.

I'll have another play with it today if I get the chance and let you know
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underquark
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simonsezdothis wrote:
When you push a "Device" button (lets say DVD)I would like to send out an IR command to a switcher at the same time.
And that sounds like a macro on the device button which is also possible - and commonly used - on the 8910. It can be set up so that one press of the device button sends a command or series of commands to change input on a device (commonly the input to a TV or display) thus "switching" the display to viewing, say, the DVD player and setting up that "page" of buttons to control the DVD (but you could equally easily with JP1 have buttons for your amplifier, window blinds or Roboraptor KeyMoved to buttons also on that "page" but not using its native code).
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you want to do is easier with the extender (some extra software inserted into the remote via JP1) but I think could be done without the extender.

Lots of beginners start without using the extender even if they expect to need it. I personally think that's more total effort than starting with the extender. But other experts probably disagree with me.

simonsezdothis wrote:
When you push a "Device" button (lets say DVD)I would like to send out an IR command to a switcher at the same time. So now on the "DVD page" we have a command to a Switcher under the Device Buttons, controls for the DVD player, and perhaps Amplifier Volume commands.


In JP1 terminology (non extender), that would be:

1) A setup code for the AMP, with a device key dedicated to it.
2) A setup code for the DVD, with a device key dedicated to it.
3) A setup code for the switcher without a device key dedicated to it.
4) A keymove in DVD mode that sends the switcher a command for "DVD". Probably you would want that on a shifted key, so it doesn't use up a normal key.
5) A macro on the DVD button that first switches to DVD mode (what you call page) and then issues the key for the keymove described in (4).
6) VPT (volume punch through) set up so that the Vol+, Vol- and Mute buttons of DVD mode use the AMP mode signals.

There are lots of other ways to do things (especially item 6) and various reasons why one method might be better than other in a given case. So without an extender you might find it better to use three keymoves instead of VPT for 6. Or you might use home theater mode instead of VPT (requiring a command for that in the macro described in 5.

With the extender, device selection is more flexible, giving a superset of the functionality of VPT plus home theater mode within one feature. You would use that feature for item 6.
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underquark
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As per johnsfine, just get the extender for the 8910. I played with various JP1 remotes in basic mode and then JP1 mode (Kameleon 8040, URC7562 etc.). I then got an 8910 and never used it in basic mode, just went straight to using the extender. Some careful reading required but well worth it. On my set -up, ordinary press of a device button selects functions for that button. A long press of that button causes the TV to switch inputs. Rather contrarily I have it set up so that a long press of the TV button selects the TV functions but a short press of the TV button switches from TV internal (analogue) tuner to the AV inputs but - with the extender - you can set it up almost any way you want.

Many people seem to worry about "losing" the learning facility when using the extender. You lose nothing; just make sure you save your current configuration, reset the remote and it's a learner again. Take the learned signal, decode it in IR and incorporate it into your setup and load up your extender again.

Also, "installing" the extender seems daunting at first but once you have a working setup it's just a case of saving as you go and making a few changes at a time. You don't need to "re-install" the extender when things go wrong; just revert to your last-saved working IR file and upload it to the remote.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some quick terminology tips...

1) Your "source" buttons are known as "device" buttons here. (UEI calls them "mode" buttons).
2) Your "page" is called "mode" here. (eg, the remote is in DVD mode).
3) The phrase "selecting a source" would likely be interpreted here as selecting a source on your device (eg, putting the TV into "video" or "antenna" mode, or putting the stereo into "CD" mode, etc). The correct phrase would be "selecting a device mode".
4) We don't use the term "device number" here (though I think John uses it sometimes). The term "device code" refers to the code found in the fixed part of most IR protocols. You'll only need to worry about this term is you have the need to build or modify an upgrade.
5) "Setup code" refers to those numbers that you look up in the printed manual and then enter into the remote in order to program it (eg, TV/0156, DVD/0571, etc). People often, incorrectly, refers to setup codes as "device codes".
6) You also refer to "IR protocols" in a way that leads me to believe that you don't know what that means either. I suspect that you assume that your TV and DVD player use different protocols based on the fact that neither device responds to the others remote, whereas the one statement don't not imply the other. It's entirely possible that your TV and DVD player use the exact same IR protocol with different device codes.
7) Your phrase "Have IR commands under the Number keys..." would be better stated as "Have IR commands programmed to the Number keys ...".

So, let me re-phrase your questions...

1) Can I make the device buttons send a signal?
Yes. When you use JP1 to program the URC-8910 remote, you can program macros to the device buttons. These macros can include any buttons you like, including the "source select" buttons for your switcher. You could also include buttons in the macro that would select the correct source on your a/v receiver, your TV and any other relevant devices. If your devices support "discrete codes", you could also include some "discrete on" steps in the macros.

If you don't want to program the switcher to one of the device buttons, you can use keymoves (as John described) or learning to program the switchers buttons somewhere on the remote.

2) Can I mix buttons from more than one device in a single device mode?
Yes.
a) The volume buttons can be programmed using VPT (Volume Punch Thru) to operate the volume buttons from one of the other device modes.
b) Almost all of the button can be re-programmed using "key moves" or learning, so that they work devices other than the main device programmed to the device button.
c) You can also use the "device combiner" to create a single upgrade that combines buttons from several different devices, regardless of the device codes or protocols used.
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simonsezdothis



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks HEAPS for the replies and thanks Rob ... for clearing up the terminology issues!
That makes much more sense to me now. (I'll keep a text file of your reply for future reference)
I've had a better play with it all today and feel like I'm getting somewhere now. I might just keep playing with it all for a while before I look at the Extender.
From what you all say, it seems there are a variety of ways to achieve the same result, so I'll try a few different ways and see what works best.

Thanks again ... you guys are awesome!

Humble regards ...
"Simon"
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