I'm having some problems with sat device (DishPlayer old protocol) after installing extender 2 into 2116.
First, power command in macro works in about 1 out of 5 times. I was careful to alternate commands for the same device with others. However in this case the length of a signal seems to be the culprit, as power key alone has the same problem. It works every time I hold it for 3/4 to 1 sec. As I learned from the readme, extender shortens the delay between keys (which is just great) but also the length of each key. The first one can be cured (if necessary) in different ways, including delay protocol. What can I do about the second? The key is sent from the toad. I will try to put multiple power keys into "on" and "off" sequences but somehow I doubt it will work as there is difference in transmitted IR signal between multiple presses and press-and-hold.
Second, and really strange one. ALL the buttons of this device seem to work intermittently with extender. Not in macro! I thought the extender does not affect regular keys, even if there are keymoves on them. BTW all other devices work fine. And one more thing - I saw the same sluggish response of this device even before JP1, when I simply learned the signals. It required about twice longer key strokes to operate, compared to using built-in setup code.
Extender is too fast ?
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Capn Trips
- Expert
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- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:56 am
Short answer - take a look at the Device Combiner protocol to build your DishPlayer upgrade. Experiment with the duration control option built in to it and see what you get.
Longer answer - For what it's worth, my experience with Dish products was similar. I have a Dish PVR 501, and ANY Dish remote signals sent by my RS 15-1994 were simply of too short duration to reliably activate the desired function on the unit. As I recall, this was independent of the use of the extender. I believe there are two ways to extend the duration of your signals. One involves one of the experts modifying the Dishplayer protocol's duration code and having you upload that for use.
The more elegant and practical (to my thinking) solution was/is to use the Device Combiner protocol to build your DishPlayer upgrade. The Device Combiner allows you to set the duration of the signal for each function you program. Upload the protocol and Device upgrades and VOILA!
The elegance is that I was able to use the same upgrade to program in a few odds and ends functions from other equipment (like my CD changer) (Device Combiner allows up to 16 devices, I believe) that I could use in Macros and not have to install a whole separate Device (and potentially Protocol) upgrade to encompass these.
Longer answer - For what it's worth, my experience with Dish products was similar. I have a Dish PVR 501, and ANY Dish remote signals sent by my RS 15-1994 were simply of too short duration to reliably activate the desired function on the unit. As I recall, this was independent of the use of the extender. I believe there are two ways to extend the duration of your signals. One involves one of the experts modifying the Dishplayer protocol's duration code and having you upload that for use.
The more elegant and practical (to my thinking) solution was/is to use the Device Combiner protocol to build your DishPlayer upgrade. The Device Combiner allows you to set the duration of the signal for each function you program. Upload the protocol and Device upgrades and VOILA!
The elegance is that I was able to use the same upgrade to program in a few odds and ends functions from other equipment (like my CD changer) (Device Combiner allows up to 16 devices, I believe) that I could use in Macros and not have to install a whole separate Device (and potentially Protocol) upgrade to encompass these.
This solution has crossed my mind as well. In fact, my first version of the device upgrade was built on DC as I needed two devices for three commands. Unfortunately, there were two keys that refused working properly even with all the help from this forum. Finally, I was told about external functions and that was an elegant solution - use built-in protocol for most of the keypad and three keymoves with external functions from other built-in protocols. So, if I switch to DC once again, I might cure some buttons using delay, but will lose those two "stubborn" keys.
Your idea about modified duration looks promising. I just hope there is some byte in the compiled code that can be adjusted in the IR without bothering guys with source modification.
But what really puzzles me is that buit-in protocols work without any problems! Only learned signals and device upgrades require key holding.
Your idea about modified duration looks promising. I just hope there is some byte in the compiled code that can be adjusted in the IR without bothering guys with source modification.
But what really puzzles me is that buit-in protocols work without any problems! Only learned signals and device upgrades require key holding.
Can somebody, please, confirm that installation of an extender does not affect the duration of the signals sent by regular buttons with built-in setup code? How about keymoves to device upgrade, are they affected?
I certainly hope it's just my subjective feeling. If it is so, I can probably use DC with delays for those buttons that I put in macro, and continue using sat/0775 for most of the keypad.
These are my (subjective) observations:
1. Virgin remote, built-in setup code - works just fine (this is different from Capn Trips's experience with Dish products). Some commands missing.
2. Virgin remote, built-in setup code, missing commands simply learned. Here the troubles begin - learned keys work intermittently. I have to hold them for about 3/4 sec to get an action.
3. No learned keys, no extender. Full device upgrade with DC. The same problem now with ALL keys - slow response. Another problem: some keys didn't work at all.
4. Alternative approach: built-in setup code, no upgrades; for one of the missing commands I created a keymove within the same device. Works flawlessly.
5. For other missing commands (with different device number) I created a tiny device upgrade with same protocol but device number 16; No protocol upgrade required, so I just keymoved some buttons to this new device. No problems here as well.
6. Having 4 and 5 refined, installed extender2. Now everything works but the old problem is back - have to hold all buttons. Considering extender's speed, macro is out of question here.
I certainly hope it's just my subjective feeling. If it is so, I can probably use DC with delays for those buttons that I put in macro, and continue using sat/0775 for most of the keypad.
These are my (subjective) observations:
1. Virgin remote, built-in setup code - works just fine (this is different from Capn Trips's experience with Dish products). Some commands missing.
2. Virgin remote, built-in setup code, missing commands simply learned. Here the troubles begin - learned keys work intermittently. I have to hold them for about 3/4 sec to get an action.
3. No learned keys, no extender. Full device upgrade with DC. The same problem now with ALL keys - slow response. Another problem: some keys didn't work at all.
4. Alternative approach: built-in setup code, no upgrades; for one of the missing commands I created a keymove within the same device. Works flawlessly.
5. For other missing commands (with different device number) I created a tiny device upgrade with same protocol but device number 16; No protocol upgrade required, so I just keymoved some buttons to this new device. No problems here as well.
6. Having 4 and 5 refined, installed extender2. Now everything works but the old problem is back - have to hold all buttons. Considering extender's speed, macro is out of question here.
So far as I know the extenders affect duration of keys used in macros and do not affect the duration of keys used outside macros, and in both of those cases it shouldn't matter:
A) whether the device is built in or upgrade, nor
B) whether the protocol is built in or upgrade, nor
C) whether the key is a KeyMove or defined by the setup code.
It is possible for each protocol upgrade to specify duration in a way that leaves it up to the extender, or to specify duration in a way that overrides the extender (and thus makes the in_macro duration the same with or without an extender and normally makes the short_keypress duration outside a macro the same as well).
A) whether the device is built in or upgrade, nor
B) whether the protocol is built in or upgrade, nor
C) whether the key is a KeyMove or defined by the setup code.
It is possible for each protocol upgrade to specify duration in a way that leaves it up to the extender, or to specify duration in a way that overrides the extender (and thus makes the in_macro duration the same with or without an extender and normally makes the short_keypress duration outside a macro the same as well).
This is pretty much what I expected. But then it means either my remote exhibits some bizarre behaviour or I have to pay a visit to a certain doctorjohnsfine wrote:So far as I know the extenders affect duration of keys used in macros and do not affect the duration of keys used outside macros
How?It is possible for each protocol upgrade to specify duration in a way that leaves it up to the extender, or to specify duration in a way that overrides the extender
Can I do it myself? You don't mean wrapping protocol into DC, do you?-
bargain_pro
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:59 am
If this is true then you can do this:johnsfine wrote:So far as I know the extenders affect duration of keys used in macros and do not affect the duration of keys used outside macros
For all the macros, LKP, TOADs, etc, Use the EFC/HEX "twice" and that should take care of "in-macro" behavior. I have tried this personally and it works reliabally with extender installed. (Disclamer: But with the device upgrade)
Thing I have not tried was using "built-in" device code SAT/0775. I will try it and let you know.