Any DVD recorder using same codes as VCR?

[JohnM]

I'm looking for any DVD recorder which uses the same codes as any VCR. The reason being, I have echostar DP301 sat reciever which comes with built-in IR blaster and it has all the codes for most of the available VCR. I can set the event timers to record any of the show to the VCR. And I'd like to use the same functionality with a DVD recorder. Since the IR blaster only controls VCR, so any DVD recorder which uses the same "record" and "stop" codes as any supported VCR would do. If there is such a DVD recorder I'd prefer to buy that one.
Since JP1 experts know more about the codes than anyone else, I hope someone would be able to help me out.
And BTW, I do own a JP1 learning remote. But I think my question belongs to this forum.

[johnsfine]

Sounds like a long shot.

If it exists, I can't think of any easy way to search for it.

The JP1 file area and other IR databases don't have an organised split between DVD players and DVD recorders, so the raw data is buried in a larger set.

There are a LOT of models, so that even if you found online data for a model with codes you like, you probably can't find that exact model for sale. Mosts brands are inconsistent with code sets, so if you find the same brand and similar model number for sale, it probably uses a different IR code set.

There are a LOT of VCR code sets. I don't believe your claim "it has all the codes for most of the available VCR". If you find a DVD with record and STOP commands matching some VCR, probably the DP301 will be missing that VCR code set.

You might have a better shot hacking the DVD recorder. I don't know much about that topic, but I have seen that there are many DVD players that have online hacking discussions detailed enough to tell you how to change its IR code set to whatever you want it to be. I expect there are similarly hacked DVD recorders. And DVD hacking sites also keep more up to date info on how you can buy a new DVD player that is compatible with a given hack (details of which currently available models use the same internal design).

[The Robman]

I concur with John. I think it's highly unlikely that a DVD recorder would have the exact same codeset as a VCR.

You best bet would be to try to find a DVD recorder where someone has already figured out how to change the IR codeset. At that point, you could come back here to see what would be the best codeset to use.

[JohnM]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I never heard about hacking DVD IR codes, I've read a lot about lots of other types of DVD hacking. Never about the IR codes hacking, Any pointer??

[johnsfine]

Sorry. Bad memory. Seen it several times. Don't remember where. I do remember why (which may help you find where).

Many DVDs have hidden commands for region changing etc. that are not included in the original remote. Once the firmware is hacked, the hackers know the desired codes and could generate them via JP1 or Pronto. But most of those hackers don't have JP1 or Pronto.

So they examine the hacked firmware a little further to understand how to change those IR signals. It's a tiny step from there to knowing how to make the entire code set anything you like within the same protocol (which is typically NEC1 in hacked DVDs). There are, of course, VCR code sets in NEC1 that would be in any system that even pretends to support a wide range of VCRs.

[The Robman]

I think John remembered reading about it in this thread...
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6727

There's a link in that thread to the following offsite thread:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368649

There you will read about how you normally need to use the mysterious $00F2 command in order to change the region code, but this command is not part of the standard remote control, so one of the hackers changed the firmware so you can use the "0" button instead.

[underquark]

I guess you could set each code in turn on your Echostar and learn it to your JP1 remote then scour the files section for a match but you migt well not find one. Are you really going to base your DVD-R buying decision on whether it responds to a particular IR code rather than how good it is at recording, though?

[johnsfine]

I think John remembered reading about it in this thread...

I didn't mention that recent thread because it touches so lightly on this aspect of the question. While it is related, I saw other threads long ago that went into much more detail. But those threads were in DVD hacking forums, not in remotecentral or hifi-remote.

I have searched DVD hacking forums only as a resource for finding common brand/models of DVD that are likely to match the IR code set of some less common brand/model. They tend to have better data on that question than IR sites. If I accidentally happen on something interesting while doing that, I read it and remember the basic concepts and forget the details and the location.

[The Robman]

I didn't mention that recent thread because it touches so lightly on this aspect of the question.

I don't think it's so light. If you look at the 2nd thread that I linked to (the link came from the 1st thread) this post explains that the hacked firmware replaces the 00F2 command with the '0' command, which obviously shows you that it's possible to change the signals that the player responds to. That post links to the dcevolution.net site where you can find the tools to hack the firmware yourself.

So, for example, if John were to get a player where hackers (such as "virus" from avforums.com) had already reverse engineered the firmware, it should be possible to hack the firmware so that it responds to a different device code.

If you were to find such a player, we could probably help you figure out which code to use in your Echostar and of course, what codes to use in the firmware.

[JohnM]

Thanks guys. Robman the link for avaforum is very informative.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... ile_id=325

This points to a download "Bose LS28 Home Theater System"

I guess you could set each code in turn on your Echostar and learn it to your JP1 remote then scour the files section for a match but you migt well not find one.

I didn't count the number of VCR codes supported, But according to http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmenta ... blue.shtml, There are almost 100 or more codes for VCR.

Are you really going to base your DVD-R buying decision on whether it responds to a particular IR code rather than how good it is at recording, though?

If I can find some cheap recorder using VCR codes, then yes, I'd base my decision on IR codes only. If it happens to be an expensive one, than I might think again.
You guys provided me new insight, I never thought of actually hacking the firmware. I suppose it can be done, since IR hardware is just an IR diode, it's the firmware that actually sends something useful.
I'm not new to embedded/firmware programming. I sure can do it. Link/Tools by "Virus" at dcevolution.net are for specific Panasonic player models. I don't think the recorder models use the same processor, so the tools don't apply for new models. I'll see if I can find more hardware details about some cheap recorders, LiteOn probably, since it's seems like hacker's favourite recorder.

[JohnM]

On second thought, It probably would be easier to hack the echostar firmware and replace the code for a similiar existing VCR to the required code for DVR. Assuming the IR codes in the firmware are not compressed, Is there an easy way to look for the IR codes in a binary file?. I mean is there some pattern that I can search for? Any format for the IR codes like how many bytes for each etc etc? OR do I have to disassemble the whole firmware first and then find the routine responsible to send the IR code.

[johnsfine]

It depends what is inside the Echostar.

Typically, hacking firmware from scratch is a massive project. You wouldn't do that for the DVD recorder. There you either find that someone already did it for you, or go some other way.

A DVR system might be layered on top of Linux or similar OS. In that case you can probably find the files for the IR data without disassembing the whole firmware. That would make it practical to change the IR it sends.

[The Robman]

This points to a download "Bose LS28 Home Theater System"

I don't know what happened there, but I just fixed the link in my original post. Here it is...
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6727

If you discover how to hack the Echostar so you can change the IR codes, or add new ones, this would be the way to go as it would let you chose your DVD-R based on it's features rather than the IR signal it uses. (Btw, this sort of thing has been done before, specifically with ReplayTV and Tivo).

If that path doesn't look promising, my advice would be to go over to the avforums and seek advice there. Tell them that you are looking for a DVD recorder where the firmware has already been hacked and the hackers know where the remote codes are stored (ie, exactly what "virus" has done with his Panasonic player). If you find such a player, let us know the brand and model so we can look up what remote signals it uses, then we can advise on which VCR code to aim for. If it's a major brand, such as Panasonic, Sony, etc then it probably uses the OEM's proprietry protocol, which would make the search for a similar VCR simpler. The bonus here is that we'd probably only need to change the device code, the individual button codes could stay the same.

If it's one of the cheap Chinese players that are quite common, it probably uses the NEC1 protocol, which again would be easy for us to handle. We would most likely need to change all the button codes, which would be extra work though.