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Mill4/But more specifically "supermacro" keys.

 
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 10:36 am    Post subject: Mill4/But more specifically "supermacro" keys. Reply with quote

John Head has a unyet defined B02 version of this remote. For the last week or so I've been working/helping him with creating the rdf for it. This led to a re-examination on the B00, B01, and B04 versions on my part.

I've got some 5 or 6 different versions of the ueic manuals for these. Some don't mention the three "supermacro" keys at all, not even in the key description's sections. If they are mentioned, they are referred to as "Tune-in" keys. The ONLY documentation, if any is given, is that you can program three "favorites" channels to each of the three keys.

Procedure: setup**,9-9-5**, "F" (F1>F3), *channel numbers*(unselected device defaults to cable)(Thus if you want to use it for the TV, precede the channel digits with TV),setup**. To program in another, repeat all the steps. If your cable box or TV requires "enter"/OK, add that in after the digits. You can use up to three digits depending on what your device requires.

OK, that means you can enter up to 9 of these (3 X 3 keys). Adding a 4th bumps the first one out.

Some months ago I helped kent Mein with his Intuitive RDF. This was a remote provided by his cable co, T-W. Online they had a manual, so I downloaded it and used it as a reference with Kent for the rdf development. Now here's the KEY part of this post: His remote has ONE "supermacro key". In the manual they statedthat you can put a (implying one) macro of up to 15 steps. Later they mentioned about using this key as a "tune-in" type, and gave the procedure. It kinda implied you could do one or the other. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

Guess what? You can actually put THREE macros of up to 15 steps on each one. You can also mix up to 15 step macros with "Tune in" type entries.
Applying this to the Mill4 I found you can thus have 9 total up to 15 step macros on these three keys.

HIS manual (for the B02) unlike any of the other's, said you can put an all power on macro on the "power key" for cable mode. (or any devices you want to power up). The caveat is, you can ONLY do it for the cable power key (at least manually). If you DON'T leave cable mode, hitting power again does an all off, assuming all your power commands are toggles. however, if you leave cable mode, press power to turn off a device other than cable, and return to cable, cable/power only affects the cable device. (Thus, the remaining devices, don't turn off, and that interstepped one doesn't come back on, effectively you've "turned off" the macro. It works the same way for the other versions, so this was an undocumented "feature".

Now, the question: Of the other remotes with "supermacro" keys, can they also hold up to three up to 15 step macros on each supermacro key? Unfortunately I don't have any other remotes with supermacro keys, so I can't "test" this. I have emailed Kent to see if it works with his single supermacro keyed Intuitive.

Are there other remotes that have the same "feature" with regard to the cable/power key "all on" macro?

Jim
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vasqued2
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True...

I mean false...

I mean maybe...

Sorry James, you lost me somewhere around "Now here's the KEY part of this post" Smile

With that said, I think you are talking about keys that are defined as MultiMacro keys in the RDF files. Do a search of all the rdf files for MultiMacros to find a list of all remotes with them.

If so, then I was never aware that any of them limited macro length to something less than 15. I know my Navigator (B00) doesn't force a lower limit.

David
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mr_d_p_gumby
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Mill4/But more specifically "supermacro" keys. Reply with quote

jamesgammel wrote:
Some don't mention the three "supermacro" keys at all, not even in the key description's sections. If they are mentioned, they are referred to as "Tune-in" keys. The ONLY documentation, if any is given, is that you can program three "favorites" channels to each of the three keys.
The Navigators & other cable-type remotes typically call these "Tune-in" keys also. Regardless of how they are described, the feature seems to work the same on all remotes that have such keys, which we refer to as "MultiMacro" keys. The UEI documentation re the "Tune-in" keys would suggest that they can only be used for favorite channel selection, but, as usual, this is misleading, and in reality any sort of macro can be used.

Each MultiMacro key can have one, two or three 15-step macros assigned to it. They are programmed using the Setup-995 sequence, just like any other macro. As you enter each macro, the remote numbers them sequentially. When you enter the fourth one, it overwrites the first one, and so on. There will never be more than 3 macros on one key. I have not seen a case where the macros were limited to less than 15 steps. While the Intuitive may only have one MultiMacro key (most remotes with the feature have three), it functions in the same manner. In many of the remotes with this feature, you cannot create macros on any other key (except of course using IR).

When you use the MultiMacro key, it cycles through the set of macros assigned to it and executes one macro per button push.

In the EEPROM, there is always a control byte for each MultiMacro key that keeps track of how many macros have been recorded for the key, and in some cases it also keeps track of playback status. Each of the macros is stored in the same way as a normal macro, but the macro number is stored in a couple of otherwise unused bits. IR can understand that these are macros, but does not provide any means to create them.

vasqued2 wrote:
Sorry James, you lost me somewhere around "Now here's the KEY part of this post" Smile
I'm having the same problem, so I hope what I've said here is helpful. Confused
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vasqued2 wrote:

I think you are talking about keys that are defined as MultiMacro keys in the RDF files.

Correct.

vasqued2 wrote:
Do a search of all the rdf files for MultiMacros to find a list of all remotes with them.


I'm aware that there may be a substantial number of remote models with multimacro keys. However, obtaining ueic manuals isn't exactly an easy chore, nor being able to test how they work if you don't actually have the remote in hand.

vasqued2 wrote:
If so, then I was never aware that any of them limited macro length to something less than 15. I know my Navigator (B00) doesn't force a lower limit.
David


I wasn't stating or implying a lower limit.

The point being, on at least the Mill4's, (and maybe more?) IF THEY document that a multimacro key can hold a (up to) 15 step macro, the implication is that it's only one per multi-macro key. Also, the Mill4 manuals don't document this feature at all; if anything is mentioned about these keys at all, they're mentioned as "tune-in" keys, where you can program in UP TO 3 channels per key (effectively three baby macros).

Let's look at a worse case scenario: TV channel selection requires three digits, AND ok/enter. If you don't specify "TV" as the channel device this is for, the remote "assumes" it's for the cable device. With these parameters, a single macro would be: F1=TV;digit;digit;digit;enter/ok(as a maximum required to get this to execute). In most cases it will likely involve fewer steps. Counting the steps yields 5 max per single entry. It allows up to three seperate entries. 3X5=15 total steps.

Of the 5 or 6 different versions of the Mill4 manual I've accumulated, NONE mention that you can program a 15-step macro to the multi-macro keys. I found out that you can by extrapolating info gleaned from the INTUITIVE manual. I also found out that you can actually program 3 15-step macros to each multi-macro key. Since there's 3 multimacro keys on a Mill4, you can program a total of 9 15-step macros to the three.

I assume that this is the case with the Intuitive remote as well, albeit it only has 1 multimacro key. I've asked Kent to confirm that.

I now see that as I'm writing this, Mike has also posted a response. He says the documentation for Navigators also refers to them as "Tune-in keys" What I'm trying to find out is if these other remotes, like the Navigators that have multimacro keys will also allow three 15-step macros to each multimacro key, ie is this a feature for all remotes with multimacro keys?

These things fire off in order, so they kinda make a loop 1-2-3-1-2-3etc. So, to reach a specific macro, you may have to "fire a few into the pillow" to get to the one you need. The advantage is you aren't tieing up a function key, nor making a lot of keymoves to over-riide globalness, nor have to make a DSM.

Jim
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, gee, I couldn't read all of Mike's post before. It looks like he did answer my question in the part I couldn't see, so THANKS Mike.

Jim
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamesgammel wrote:
I couldn't read all of Mike's post... in the part I couldn't see

I think you're referring to the Topic Review window that appears below where you enter your message info. If so, there is a scrollbar within that window so you can scroll the other messages in the thread. It's colored with the same scheme as the forum, so it's easy to miss. On long threads, it won't show all messages, but will always show the last few.
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