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Help interpreting an upgrade code without KM/RM?

 
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:30 am    Post subject: Help interpreting an upgrade code without KM/RM? Reply with quote

I am trying to program a RS 15-2117 for my in-laws who just bought a Sony Dream System. Unfortunately, I can't use KM since they don't have installation disks to get the analysis toolpack installed in their MS Excel program. I'm 90% sure the upgrade I need is in the Yahoo Groups file section for Sony Dream System, but I don't know how to extract the protocol upgrade and device upgrade codes from the text file.

Can someone describe for me what parts of the KM upgrade .txt file need to be cut and pasted into the corresponding protocol and device upgrade boxes in IR to allow me to install this upgrade?
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify the original post, none of the 2117 built-in upgrade codes identified as Sony Home Theater work this system, and a handful of learned signals provided me little insight - mostly Sony15 Device 48, and a few Sony 15 Device 176. Apparently this is a combo coed of some sort not resident in the 2117.

Any help?
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can't use KM, I suggest RM. The Java files from Sun (that you need for RM) are a free download.

The best site for Sony command data is
http://www.anycities.com/rhm5757/sony_home.htm

That gives details for both device 48 and device 176 as part as the Receiver device in the "Home Theater Audio" group. I'm not sure how that set of devices relates to the "Dream System", but I expect it will be more obvious to you than to me since you have access to the actual system.
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Help interpreting an upgrade code without KM/RM? Reply with quote

Capn Trips wrote:
Can someone describe for me what parts of the KM upgrade .txt file need to be cut and pasted into the corresponding protocol and device upgrade boxes in IR to allow me to install this upgrade?

I'm not sure what file you're talking about, but if it's not for the 2117, the Device Upgrade Code CAN'T be copied from it (upgrades are remote specific).

You can post a link to (or the name of) the file, and maybe someone can change the remote to the 2117, and then include the required code in a post here, or you can try installing RM, since you don't have the necessary Excel files.
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not gonna be possible at least not that simply. i checked the dream system upgrades at yahoo and all of them are for remotes other than the 2116/7. therefore all of them would need to be loaded into KM, remote changed, and some buttons are likely to need to be reassigned. I wouldn't have a clue as to how you'd want them assigned, but likely some will take keymoves. Perhaps you'd be better off downloading Java and RM on that maching, then import the file and assign the functions to buttons the way you'd want them. Note that some previous key assignments will get unassigned anyway, so be sure to go through the layout sheet and get everything done, don't just import and copy and paste, you'll likely lose a lot of functions.

Jim
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the replies. Unfortunately, this machine ain't gonna run RM, either - it's pretty primitive and the 28.8 modem Crying or Very sad doesn't make downloading all of the RM files (which I would have to learn from scratch - a project I intend to embark on sooner or later, but haven't the time or inclination for right now) a practical alternative - I do have a life, you know Very Happy .

I don't want to impose on anyone to build me a custom upgrade. If a simple uploading of the Dream System file and changing the remote to a 2117 gives me some minimal functionality I would appreciate it. Wink Regardless, I'll work on the tailored version when I get home, but if this is impractical, I'll just build the upgrade when I get home and deliver the remote to my in-laws the next time I'm visiting (or mail it) Twisted Evil .

The two candidate files are in the Yahoo groups "files:device codes:home theater systems" folder.

Sony_DAV_C770.txt; and
Sony_Dream_System.txt

Thanks for the QUICK replies.
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try these... all I did was change the remote. I didn't rearrange any button assignments.

Quote:
Sony_DAV_C770.txt

This one uses the Device Combiner protocol.

Upgrade Code 0 = 2D FD (DVD/1533)
44 00 FE FE 09 00 00 02 90 02 00 02 80 02 40 02
C0 02 20 02 A0 02 60 02 E0 02 10 01 49 01 C9 02
3E 02 0C 02 8C 01 A9 00 4C 00 1C 02 CC 02 2C 00
9C 00 2A 02 1E 02 9E 02 5E 02 DE 02 8C
KeyMoves
10 F4 25 FD 02 0C 28 F4 25 FD 00 58 2D F4 25 FD
00 14 88 F4 25 FD 01 28 94 F4 25 FD 00 D8 8C F4
25 FD 00 FC
End

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 01 44 (S3C8+)
00 00 22 08 06 96 10 04 90 05 6B 03 E4 05 0D 38
04 2C FF E7 62 45 E7 32 44 E3 42 E3 52 1C 03 E3
72 D7 17 1E A2 36 3B F7 97 01 FF 06 D9 02 56 8D
BF C6 CA 01 00 C6 C2 20 31 70 C3 70 C2 C6 DA 41
51 1F 40 EC 49 4E 53 58 5D 00 DE 58 92 00 00 CA
0A 0A C0 00 DE 08 08 00 00 CA 0B 0B CA
End


Quote:
Sony_Dream_System.txt

This one uses the Sony Combo protocol.

Upgrade Code 0 = 25 DF (DVD/1503)
27 00 FE FE FD 08 92 00 00 90 09 00 09 80 09 40
09 C0 09 20 09 A0 09 60 09 E0 09 10 09 49 0A C9
0A 29 0A 8C 09 0C 09 A9 0A 4C 5B 1C 5B CC 09 2C
09 9C 5B D8 5B 1E 09 9E 09 5E 09 DE 09 3E 09 CA
5B 2F 0A F0 5B 30 09 F0 B0
KeyMoves
38 F4 25 DF 70 5B
End

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 00 27 (S3C8+)
3A 8A 42 8B 15 F8 15 05 07 02 58 01 18 01 2C 01
18 57 D0 04 B0 01 18 08 03 08 76 07 01 EB 17 76
08 01 6B 0F E6 28 F9 E6 12 08 08 08 E0 C0 56 C0
03 09 01 E6 24 05 8D 01 49
End
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks heaps. I will try bopth tonight and report back then. You guys are all right (but most members here already know that) Very Happy
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, no joy on the upgrades. Thanks for helping. I will take a full library of learned signals home with me and build the upgrade (and install the extender and program the system for ease of use for my technologically-challenged in-laws). I'll make sure to post the final upgrade over at Yahoo.

Thanks again.

The Captain

P.S. That'll teach me to travel without my laptop Rolling Eyes
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sfhub



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287

PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Help interpreting an upgrade code without KM/RM? Reply with quote

Capn Trips wrote:
Unfortunately, I can't use KM since they don't have installation disks to get the analysis toolpack installed in their MS Excel program.

It might be worth a try, but a lot of times I find I can install the toolpak
without the original disks. The confusion usually arises in that if I load
the KM spreadsheet, Tools->Addins is grayed out which lead me to think
I needed the original disks to install the analysis toolpak.

However if I run Excel from scratch with default blank worksheet,
Tools->Addins is not grayed out and I can select analysis toolpak and
it doesn't ask me for the original disks (this might just be an artifact of
how Excel was initially installed, so no guarantees it won't ask you for the
disks, but worth a shot given your other choices)
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:44 pm    Post subject: Sony Protocols/Device codes(?!) - what a diaster! Reply with quote

Well, to update all on my efforts. None of the RS 15-2117 upgrades kindly forwarded worked on my in-laws' Sony HT-1800DP system (consisting of a DVP-NS725P DVD player and a STR-K751P HT receiver), although I was very optimistic. "How much variability can there be in a Sony HTS-in-a-box system?" I figured. Boy was I in for a rude awakening!

Upon coming home and decoding all of the learned functions (maxed out my 1994 and the "target" 2117), I couldn't believe these were all good decodes, but only a very few had the dreaded "RED BACKGROUND" on the decode, and those were deducible anyways.

After I was through, I had functions using Sony12:1, Sony15:48, Sony15:121, Sony15:176, Sony20:26.73, and Sony20:26.98!!! Two of these are used for a SINGLE command! Searching through all of the HTS, Receiver, and DVD files at Yahoo, I found that NONE of them were good matches. Many had pieces parts, but I have to build my own upgrade(s) for this mess.

Having never before done Sony, it was back to the protocol "readme". Again a very helpful document. I'm telling you, though, I thought that grappling with the bizarre concotions that Pioneer manages to come up with was hard, but Sony puts them to shame!

Thanks to (the other) Rob's super Sony website, however, I have a pretty exhaustive list of functions and codes within all of the protocol/device combinations above and hopefully I'll be able to use the discretes listed therein to tailor this puppy for the old man.

Now for the questions -
(1) It seems like I could combine all of these into a single protocol upgrade using the Sony Combo protocol, but would have several Device upgrades to get the DVD and HTS button mappings uniquely assigned. Can I do this and only end up with ONE protocol upgrade and TWO device upgrades that call on the same protocol upgrade? (I guess if I build it and make two separate sets of button assignments, I can do a side-by-side comparison to see if the protocol upgrades are identical, eh?)
(2) If I choose to go the Device Combiner route, is the only way to obtain the 4-byte codes to install in the fixed data section of the Device Combiner protocol by building a single-protocol upgrade first and then obtaining the fixed data and transferring it over to the Device Combiner? It seems like an awfully onerous process to me.
(3) Or is it potentially more efficient to build two independent upgrades, one for the Sony20 codes and one for the Sony12/15 codes and KeyMove as necessary to cross-talk?
(4) Ultimately, I intend to install the Extender, as well, for fast macros, LKP, and other better functionality. Does that affect any of these decisions?

Thanks guys - I'll be lucky if I finish this before Christmas, but regardless, I'll definitely upload my results.

(5) a final "oh-by-the-way": for 2.5 years I have used my three 1994s with a cable bought from one of you guys in the group (too long ago to remember). I have never had cause to look inside it for resistor values, Shottke diode presence, jumper locations, etc. It just worked with each of my 1994s, from my two home PCs and a laptop, and two other PCs (work and in-laws). Battery strength makes no difference, always behaves the same. I have to disconnect the cable to get the remote to reset - no biggie. Then with the 2117 at my in-laws, "failed interface test". OK, I remembered some discussions about this and popped out a battery - worked fine (but a nuisance when the clock resets every time! - another reason for the extender). Then I bring it home and it doesn't work with a battery out. It doesn't work with batteries in, either! Panic! After my wife pried me out of the overhead, I sat back and recalled lots of threads (I previously ignored) about weak batteries, so I replaced two of the brand-new batteries with old dead ones and - "Voila!" it works. Can someone explain this schizophrenic behavior of these remotes?
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Sony Protocols/Device codes(?!) - what a diaster! Reply with quote

Capn Trips wrote:
Can someone explain this schizophrenic behavior of these remotes?

It happens?!?!? Confused

Being as old as it is, I'd guess you're interface has a normal diode and 10k resistors. The easiest fix (if you're so inclined) is to replace them with 1k's.

Actually, there's a very complex relationship between voltages and resistance between the parallel port and the remote. I'm not sure anyone really knows why. I've listened to Tommy Tyler agonize over multiple PC's used for testing all reacting differently. Then he'll send me something to test and I come up with yet another scenario.

In any event, the JP1 world just keeps plugging along... 8)
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Sony Protocols/Device codes(?!) - what a diaster! Reply with quote

Capn Trips wrote:
ONE protocol upgrade and TWO device upgrades that call on the same protocol upgrade?


In some cases, using a protocol with Rob's "hack" for the fav key, it gets tricky to use one protocol upgrade for two device upgrades. But normally it just works with no issues. The two protocol upgrades will be identical and you just need to install it once. (Even with the fav key hack you can use one protocol for two devices. There's just an extra detail to be careful of).

Capn Trips wrote:
(2) If I choose to go the Device Combiner route, is the only way to obtain the 4-byte codes to install in the fixed data section of the Device Combiner protocol by building a single-protocol upgrade first and then obtaining the fixed data and transferring it over to the Device Combiner? It seems like an awfully onerous process to me.


You just need to fill in the setup sheet to get the fixed data (you don't need the functions or buttons sheet), so it isn't that onerous. I do device number to fixed data conversions for several of the common protocols in my head rather than with KM or RM, but failing that method I don't know another easy way.

With Sony12/15, you might need that preliminary upgrade to do the OBC to EFC computations for you, unless you understand the rules for which of the two shown by the decoder is right when.
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, I subscribe to the theory (as I suspect do many here) - "If it works, don't fix it!". So if I need weak batteries for the 2117, so be it!

On to the other questions, however - I noticed that upon building the Sony20 DVD upgrade, there is no protocol upgrade. Am I to assume the 2117 is smart enough to already possess this internally? Even with me having to specify the two devices on the front sheet and a random Sony12 device? I just assumed that this would require a protocol upgrade, when apparently all this data is resident in the Device upgrade! Cool!
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capn Trips wrote:
Even with me having to specify the two devices on the front sheet and a random Sony12 device? I just assumed that this would require a protocol upgrade, when apparently all this data is resident in the Device upgrade!

Those entries control the Fixed Data which is part of the Device Upgrade. The protocol uses the fixed data, along with the function codes, to determine the IR signal sent to the device. Just like magic Exclamation
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