Outlaw 990 remote problem

krisdz · Post by **krisdz** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:50 am

Hi,
I have problem with the 990 Outlaw remote.
I load Oppo upgrade to the remote and did something wrong.
The remote is working except the Outlaw function.
I uploaded the saved outlaw_990_factory.ir file to the diagnostic area.
Any help will be appreciated
Regards
Kris
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johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:04 pm

I don't know enough about the Outlaw remotes to know whether my rdf files are messed up or your rdf files are messed up or your Outlaw remote doesn't fit any rdf file released yet.

The signature CA48C480 goes to a "Gateway" rdf in my collection of rdf files and that rdf doesn't fit your raw data.

What version of ir.exe and the rdf files are you using?

BTW, the URL you should have posted for that .ir file was
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2783

You also should have posted a URL for the Oppo upgrade you started with, which I assume was one of these
file list
but I don't know which one.

And since you must have modified that upgrade for use in an Outlaw remote, you probably should have uploaded both the .rmdu (or txt if you used KM) file of the modified upgrade, and the .ir file after the upgrade was added.

BUT, if you also (like me) don't have an rdf file that fits your raw data, you'll need help from one of the rdf file experts before you can do much with the Oppo upgrade.

krisdz · Post by **krisdz** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:00 pm

Hi John
I'm using the 6.15 version of IR
The Oppo file was:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2636
The RDF file was::
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2147
And my original file is there:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2783
Thanks
Kris

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:33 pm

Kris, I sent this in reply to your e-mail and thought I would post it here so we don't duplicate the effort.

It looks like somehow when the download was done it picked up the Gateway RDF instead of the Outlaw. There could be a couple of causes but the one that jumps out at me is that you may not have all the RDF's in the RDF folder and it defaulted to the Gateway.

One way to check is to do a file/new/select in IR and select the Outlaw RDF from the pulldown list then setup a device or two in the General panel then upload it to the remote. You will get an error loading saying the signature does not match (maybe) and if say so OK.

Another possibility is do a factory reset on the remote and make sure the Outlaw RDF is in the RDF folder that is pointed to by IR. Then download it again and see what happens.

For either option it should say Outlaw Audio (Catalyst 48) on the top of IR.

Let me know if that works either here or on the thread you have on the website.

Nils

krisdz · Post by **krisdz** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:42 pm

Hi Nils,
Let’s move the conversation here.
You got my last replay for the last message, where I mention lack of Outlaw Rdf possession.
Thanks
Kris

Nils_Ekberg · Post by **Nils_Ekberg** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:47 pm

Here are the latest RDF's

krisdz · Post by **krisdz** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:57 pm

Hi Nils,
It is coming up as the “myfile.ir-gateway”
When I try open my original saved file that what I get:

The EEPROM size detected by IR ($400) does not match the value specified in the RDF ($800). The value in the RDF will be ignored

I guess that is OK

Bad checksum at address $0000. Expected $F1 $0E, but found $51 $AE

I don’t know what that mean

The learned command references an internal burst table, but the index is out of bounds. This could be caused by an incorrect LearnAddr in the RDF

In the gateway.rdf is no such line: LearnAddr

Then I reset the remote (981 code) and download it to the remote.
I can make the other devices working again by imputing proper codes but the Outlaw is still dead.
Regards
Kris

krisdz · Post by **krisdz** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:04 am

Hi,
I changed in the Gateway.RDF file the EEPROM size from $800 to $400 and the LearnAddr from $400 to $200 and it works.
I can now restore the original ir file back to remote.
Then I remap the buttons to mach the Outlaw remote.
The remote is now fully functioning.
I guess I have Outlaw 990 RDF file.
Now I will try adding the Oppo again.
Regards
Kris

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:33 am

krisdz wrote:I changed in the Gateway.RDF file the EEPROM size from $800 to $400 and the LearnAddr from $400 to $200 and it works.

If the size is $400, it is more likely that there is no LearnedAddr, than that it is $200. What you have done has overlapped the upgrade area with the learning area, which will cause problems later. I think it would be better to simply remove the LearnedAddr line.

Also, when you change the size, you need to also change the Checksum. I think
^$000:$002..$7FD
should change to
^$000:$002..$3FD
but I'm not certain that will be correct.

krisdz wrote: Bad checksum at address $0000. Expected $F1 $0E, but found $51 $AE

That message tells you the checksum line in the rdf does not match the raw data that ir.exe is looking at. On a download from a working remote, that tells you the rdf checksum line is wrong. But if that message goes away without fixing the checksum line, that is probably an accident of the way checksums are computed, rather than indicating the line is right (and the checksum error may come back as you do more work with the remote).

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:46 am

Just FYI, both the Outlaw remotes and the Gateway remotes are "Cat 48" remotes. The current Outlaw RDF was created from a remote that was obtained right back at the beginning of JP1, so it's old. If Outlaw have ordered new remotes since then, they would have almost certainly got a newer version of the Cat48, hence the similarity to the Gateway remote.

krisdz · Post by **krisdz** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:54 am

Hi,
I’d removed the LearnAddr line from RDF and change the checksum as suggested.
When I open the saved IR file it still come up with the bad checksum.
The remote works as suppose to after reset (981) and reload.
How the checksum is calculated?
I’m not sure what more need to be changed in the RDF file to mimic the outlaw remote 100%
Then I add the Oppo upgrade but this time it sort of works.
All the original function of remote works as before but from the Oppo (aux key) only power button is right. Rest of them is mismatch. Play is menu key, eject is video5 etc. and the stop is not mapped to any key.
Where I spouse change the key mapping in KM or IR?
Regards
Kris

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:22 am

krisdz wrote:I’d removed the LearnAddr line from RDF and change the checksum as suggested.
When I open the saved IR file it still come up with the bad checksum.

That doesn't tell us whether the the checksum line is wrong, just that the file was saved with different checksum than the rdf now specifies.

krisdz wrote: The remote works as suppose to after reset (981) and reload.

"reload" ??

If you download to ir.exe from the remote right after a 981 reset and get a checksum error on the download, then the checksum line in the rdf is definitely wrong. If you do that and don't get a checksum error, then the checksum line might be right or wrong, you don't know enough to tell.

krisdz wrote: Then I add the Oppo upgrade but this time it sort of works.
All the original function of remote works as before but from the Oppo (aux key) only power button is right. Rest of them is mismatch. Play is menu key, eject is video5 etc. and the stop is not mapped to any key.
Where I spouse change the key mapping in KM or IR?

I don't know whether KM can get that right. Maybe you need to use RM (RemoteMaster) instead of KM. Or maybe some KM expert will answer.

I think your symptom means that KM doesn't know how to map keys for your model of remote. KM uses built-in knowledge of various models for key mapping.

RM uses rdf files for the key mapping. If you open an upgrade in RM and then tell RM to switch to the right rdf file, it should be able to get the mapping right. Of course we don't know if that part of your rdf file is good enough. But it should get you closer than you got with KM, and as you discover mapping errors it should be possible to fix the rdf rather than kludge the upgrade to correct them.

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:30 am

You can use IR.exe to figure out the right checksum. First off, when you download from the remote and you are presented with a choice of RDFs, click the CANCEL button so that no RDF is used.

Then use the Tools > Checksum Calculator option to bring up the checksum tool.

The Cat48 checksum will start at address $002 and will be an XOR type (rather than a SUM type). There won't be a seed value. So the only piece left to figure out is the end of range value. For $400 size EEPROMs the end is usually $3FC and for $800 size EEPROMs the end is usually $7FD.

Once you've figured it out, you will need to update the checksum entry in the RDF.

[Checksums]
^$000:$002..$7FD

krisdz · Post by **krisdz** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:57 pm

Rob
How to translate the checksum calculator output F1 / 0E to RDF format?
John
Sorry for the confusion, by “reload” I meant upload the original outlaw.ir file to the remote.
I'll try the RM

Thanks
Kris

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:59 pm

krisdz wrote:How do I translate the checksum calculator output F1 / 0E to RDF format?

Your goal is to make the calculator output match what's found at address $000 in the EEPROM. You adjust the output by changing the end-of-range address. Once you've found the correct end of range address, you drop it into the checksum formula.

For example, if the end of range address is $7FD, the formula would be...

[Checksums]
^$000:$002..$7FD

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