urc 8811 won't learn

[mathboy]

Hi,

I bought this no name (Accura) brand dvd player because it plays both NTSC and PAL dvd's. I knew before I loooked that there wouldn't be any pre-built upgrades for it and there wasn't. So I tried to learn all the keys on to my URC-8811 and I get to the rapid flash and it just won't accept any keys from my new no name brand teaching remote (batteries are new on both remotes and I have plenty of learning memory space).

I read a thread about some guy in Argentina with the same problem and was wondering if I'm out of luck...(rf too high or something?)

[underquark]

So I tried to learn all the keys on to my URC-8811 and I get to the rapid flash and it just won't accept any keys

Try learning just a few keys (power, Num 1, Num 2) many times to different buttons (e.g. power to button 1, then button 2, then button 3; Num 1 to buttons 4,5 and 6 etc.) as just one or two successfully learned signals will give you a start on finding the protocol which would at least allow you to build a test upgrade in KM to try firing different EFCs at the device and see what they do.

...was wondering if I'm out of luck...(rf too high or something?)

A cheap DVD player with rf? Almost certainly IR. Also (although you may have already been very careful about this) note that the IR emitters and the receivers are often towards the underside of the remote so pointing them straight at one another on a table doesn't always result in the best signal transfer.

[mathboy]

No luck. Indeed it would be IR, would there be a learning remote out there that would help me or are they all the same when it comes to learning?

[johnsfine]

Are you sure you know the correct learning proceedure for the 8811? Have you learned signals from other original remotes?

[mathboy]

1. Press device button (e.g. DVD)
2. Press and hold "set"
3. Press 975 then device button again
4. Press a button on the 8811 to get rapid flash
5. Put teacher and learner head-to-head and press (once or hold) teacher button

[johnsfine]

I hope you do step 5 immediately after 4, while the rapid flash is still happening.

Then what happens?

If the 8811 sees the IR signal, the rapid flashing should stop as soon as you press press teacher button. Does it?

Then, if the learning worked you get a double blink. If it didn't you get a long blink.

[mathboy]

As stated above, I get to the rapid flash. Yes I do try to teach immediately after the rapid flash and nothing happens, no two blinks...the 4 seconds passes and then the rapid flash stops after one long blink. I have learned 2 other remotes (receiver and stereo) so I wouldn't consider myself a newbie at this.

[MaskedMan]

Sounds like you're out of memory. You can only learn about 25 or so commands for the whole remote. I would reset the remote, who knows some previous owner may have learned something.

[mathboy]

As stated above, I have plenty of learning memory...built the JP1 cable and have been using it for some time...in any case, here is the latest development - after some searching on the internet I found that Accura is indeed Citizen, so I downloaded an upgrade someone has posted for Citizen and at least I got the protocol because some keys now work on the 8811 but they are not assigned properly...for example the left arrow key is the play button...I guess I can figure it out from here...

[mathboy]

Making some head way...

The Citizen upgrade allowed me to figure out that I need to use the NEC1 protocol with device number 0. Here are the only useful buttons I could figure out...

rewind = EFC 167
prev. track = EFC 247
menu = EFC 230

Is this enough information for one of you guru's to build on for all the rest of the buttons?

[johnsfine]

NEC1 protocol with device number 0.

That is a perfectly ordinary and easy to learn signal.
I don't know why the learning failed for you, but it ISN'T because of anything strange about the IR signals you're trying to learn.

Here are the only useful buttons I could figure out...

I thought you said right before that you found Play.

rewind = EFC 167
prev. track = EFC 247
menu = EFC 230

It's a lot easier to work with OBC number than EFC numbers for this sort of task. You can start an upgrade in KM or RM using those EFC number and then switch to using OBC numbers.

Is this enough information for one of you guru's to build on for all the rest of the buttons?

Sorry. There are so many different DVD's using NEC1 device 0, it is rare to find two that match. I don't have data on any that match those three signals.

Most such DVDs use OBCs from just the range 0 to 95 (not from 96 to 255). Since learning isn't working, I think you should create two or three upgrades that between them cover all the OBC numbers from 0 to 95; upload to three device buttons of your remote and test each one to find out what it does.

[mathboy]

I think you should create two or three upgrades that between them cover all the OBC numbers from 0 to 95; upload to three device buttons of your remote and test each one to find out what it does.

Sweet, I will do that and post my polished upgrade to the files section.

[underquark]

rewind = EFC 167
prev. track = EFC 247
menu = EFC 230

Is this enough information for one of you guru's to build on for all the rest of the buttons?

Whilst you can draw a curve with only three points, mathboy, I think you need just a little bit more to build an upgrade (although nothing would surprise me in this forum).

Fire up KM and start to build a new upgrade with protocol NEC1, Device = 0. Go to the "Functions" sheet and swap OBC and EFC so that the data that you are going to enter is OBC and the EFCs get worked out for you. Delete the existing functions (they're only there to start you off in a "real" upgrade). Start at the top and enter "f0" in the function column and then "f1" etc. then enter "000" in the OBC column, then "001" etc. and let Excel's Autofill extend down the column until you reach 255. Now go to the "Buttons" sheet and assign as many functions as you can to buttons.

Copy the upgrade data to IR and upload to the remote. Fire each button in turn at your device and note what (if anything) happens. Repeat until you have all the functions. You can possibly take shortcuts if you find, for instance, that "001" maps to Num1, "002" maps to Num2 etc.

[The Robman]

As stated above, I get to the rapid flash. Yes I do try to teach immediately after the rapid flash and nothing happens, no two blinks...the 4 seconds passes and then the rapid flash stops after one long blink. I have learned 2 other remotes (receiver and stereo) so I wouldn't consider myself a newbie at this.

The reason we were asking is because the instructions are poorly written in the manual and most of the time when people say that their remote doesn't learn, it's because they were using the wrong technique.

It sounds like you have the procedure right, but just for any other newbie reading this, the correct producure is to do the teaching during the rapid flash, not after as was stated. This is the main point of mis-understanding about the learning process.

Another piece of useful advice whenever a remote won't learn is to try doing a 981 reset and then re-try and if that doesn't do it, try varying the distance between the two remotes as you might find a "sweet spot" where it works just fine.

Either way, now that you've established that this uses the very common NEC1-dev0 code, it should be easy to find the rest of the OBCs. Concentrate on OBCs in the ranges 0-31 and 64-95 as OBCs in the range 32-63 are often skipped for NEC signals.

[johnsfine]

just the range 0 to 95

I guess I was asleep when I wrote that. Rob is right. Just the ranges 0 to 31 and 64 to 95. None of these (NEC1:0) DVD's that we've investigated use 32 to 63.

Unfortunately you're not likely to find shortcuts such as underquark suggested. Within the 0 to 31 and 64 to 95 ranges they all scatter the commands around without pattern.