JP1 Remotes

[davecs]

Hello again, Rob, you may remember me from a while back, I am "davespagnol" on the Yahoo site.

Our LG Video Recorder gave up the ghost, so we went out and bought a Pioneer DVR-RT400 VCR/DVD-R/RW combi. Probably better to buy separates, but there would be a lack of sockets on our amp.

Anyway, I did a download from the OFA site, and the device which worked was the VCR control 1803, which uses protocol 07E. The problem is there are loads of buttons which are not mapped.

Now the weird thing is that I can set up the URC-7562 to learn, and it learns! Point the thing at the unit and press and it does exactly what it is supposed to. The problem is that when I download it to ir.exe, it does not show any useful information in the Learned Signals tab, in fact all the numbers come up as having the same OBC/EFC even though there are small differences in the list of numbers below. I have already read the stuff about these Pioneer double codes, would an upgrade to ir.exe help at all on this one?

Some time ago I figured that if the button code under devices is 2-bytes, then if you press a button, then MAGIC-efc, the efc is converted to the first HEX byte, and the second assumed to be the one you pressed earlier. Using this method I have found a number of other EFCs, but the problem of course is that the machine needs to be in various states in order for some keys to do anything! And as there are three second bytes used, 00 01 and 03, I could potentially be having 768 stabs at every one!

Anyway there are two things I need to know:

One I already mentioned is there an update to ir.exe that will make a difference? If it will, can I import my old .txt files into it?

Two, is there anyplace I can get the various advanced key data for this particular remote? It doesn't seem to be on this site.

Thanx.
_________________
URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661

[davecs]

Hello, again!

I've answered my own question!

I did a search around on the net, and tried a suggestion that it could be worth doing a "learn" with an obstruction when you first press the original remote key, then pulling the obstruction away. This resulted in a readout which shows two signals, one an NEC device 175, and an NEC 171. There was about a 15% success rate so I had to be quite persistent.

Anyway, the 175 line gave the EFC and Hex code for the key, and the 171 line showed whether the second byte in a pair for Protocol 07E would be 01 or 03. C8 > 01 and A8 > 03.

With some controls, there is a different 171 line and you do not get the warning that you may not have got the complete signal. In these cases, you take the EFC/Hex code off this, and the second byte is 00.

I will report the HEX values I found for VCR control 1803:

0 FA01
1 7A01
2 BA01
3 3A01
4 DA01
5 5A01
6 9A01
7 1A01
8 EA01
9 6A01
Up/CH+ B001
Down/CH- 3001
Left/VCR track+ 3901
Right/VCR Track- D901

Power C201
Input select (AV) 8A03 (C903 also works)
Setup Menu F201
DVD Menu 6201
Top Menu D201
Select/Enter 0801
Cancel 5801
Return (Back a stage) D001
Videoplus 9903
Timer Record 6903
Clock/Counter 4803
Play BB00
Stop FB00
Rewind 5B00
FFwd DB00
Rec EB00
Pause 3B00
<Skip/Index 1B00
Skip/Index> 9B00
Slow play 1201
Counter Reset 5201
Dubbing 9303
One Touch Repeat CA03
Zero Return 2003
SP/LP 2903
Commercial Skip 4A03
Display On/Off 3801
Eject VCR C003
Eject DVD 9201
DVD/VCR (toggle) 4003
Audio Select 8201
Zoom A803
Repeat A>B E801
Subtitle 9301
Repeat 0101

There are also some other values:

CH+ 8903
CH- 0903 these do not work as cursors in menus.
Discrete On A201
Discrete Off 2201

I've not been able to test these 100%, but everyone I have tested as worked so far... hope this is of help to someone!
_________________
URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661

[The Robman]

I'm sure it will. Once you've compiled the complete list, I'd like to take a look at it to see what you've found.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[davecs]

[The Robman]

Do you have a version of this list that uses OBCs rather than hex?
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[davecs]

No. However, if you take the first two Hex bytes, and enter them into the EFC calculator, you find that if you take the OBC to be "LSB Comp", the 0-9 buttons increment also from 160-169.

Hard to find a pattern elsewhere, mind you, I actually drew a copy of the Pioneer remote but found no OBC pattern except for the Number Keys and the Transport keys (xx00) which ran 32-40, the missing number also being STOP. The others hop about all over the place, so I stopped bothering and didn't keep my notes for OBCs sorry! But if you fancy a look, use "LSB Comp".

Do you want the 007E protocol? I know it's internal on new remotes but I had to download it from OFA. Had a little trouble transferring files between computers.
_________________
URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661

[The Robman]

I have all the variations of $007E and I know how to convert the hex data, it's just more work than I care to do. I guess it'll be up to the next person who needs this upgrade to go through the motions.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[davecs]

Rob - if you need them that badly, I'll sit and do it when I get home (at work at present). You should know me of old, all I do is get the Hex codes I want and build the Device code by hand to my own spec.

Tell me if what follows is correct it is what I think:

All keys on this remote have a signal corresponding to an NEC code, device number 171. There is a small range of such numbers. In cases where the OBC translates to Hex AB or CB, (and on this device all 171 codes are xB) there is a further signal: NEC code, device number 175. So it is like there are two OBC codes in these cases. Obviously there is the potential for three series of OBC codes otherwise, which doesn't help you to put buttons in any order.

While I'm on OBCs, I might have a little play to see whether there are discrete codes for DVD and VCR mode.
_________________
URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661

[The Robman]

OK, I've created a spreadsheet that gives you the OBC codes, it's in the Diagnosis Area called DVD/1803. The reason I asked you for the OBCs is because you would have found them when you learned the signals.

In order to make a KM upgrade for this, I would need to know what the fixed data is in the DVD/1803 upgrade.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[davecs]

The fixed bytes are:

2A CB AB 00 00 0A


These are the OBC Codes:

[The Robman]

[davecs]

Rob

I can see the link: 2A CB AB 00 00 0A

2A > 171 dev1
CB > 44 cmd1
AB > 42 cmd2
0A > 175 dev2

There could be cmd3 and cmd4 also.

"Single" burst signals would use device 171 and would have the hex code xx00

Double burst signals would use device 175 for the first, and then cmd 1-4 of device 171 for the second. The hex code would be

xx01 (cmd1); xx03 (cmd2); xx05 (cmd3); xx07 (cmd4).

Obviously on different remotes the device numbers may be different. What would be noticeable to someone trying to get the Hex codes by "learning" would be that many keys appear to have the same Hex code. Only by the partial block method above, could someone get the full data needed to work out the full Hex pairs.

Given that, and if I have got it right, would it be helpful if I make another thread to cover the "learning" of Pioneer MIX2 codes, and how to convert them into HEX pairs in order to program ones own device, with a request for data which people discover? I was using ir.exe v3.07, can the latest version "decipher" the learned signals any better?
_________________
URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661

[johnsfine]

[The Robman]

Dave, I don't think there's much benefit to doing a comprehensive write up on how to format an upgrade by hand because I think most other JP1ers will just use KM or RM to do it for them (as I did). Plus, KM and RM know about all the different variations of the $007E executor and will format the data appropiately.

Even though Pioneer has made there signals as tricky to handle as possible, I think we've done a pretty reasonable job of setting up KM and RM so that it's not too difficult to setup.

When you look at Pioneer learned signals, you will either see a normal looking learned signal which follows the normal NEC2 rules, or you will see a pair of signals. For the 2-part signals, the OBC of the second part varies based on the button used, whereas the OBC for the first part comes from a limited choice of codes. The "Pioneer MIX 4Cmd" executor allows for up to 4 different OBCs for the 1st part of the signal, the earlier "Pioneer MIX" executor allows for just 2 OBCs for the 1st part (which is all you would need here).

When you enter the data for a function in KM or RM, for 2-part signals the OBC that you enter is the OBC for the 2nd part, you then use the byte2 control to indicate which OBC to use for the 1st part.

As I described in the New $007E "Pioneer MIX" variant thread, the first bit of the byte2 control is a switch which controls whether a 1-part or 2-part signal should be used, the next 2 bits are the index to the 4 part-1 OBCs, so as you correctly stated, the byte2 hex codes work like this...

00 = 1-part signal
01 = 2-part signal using OBC1 (ie, index = 0)
03 = 2-part signal using OBC2 (ie, index = 1)
05 = 2-part signal using OBC3 (ie, index = 2)
07 = 2-part signal using OBC4 (ie, index = 3)

Dev1 is always used for the 1-part signals. For the 2-part signals, dev1 is used for the 1st part (with the limited choice of OBCs) and dev2 is used for the 2nd part (with the variable OBCs).

As far as making DecodeIR do a better job of handling Pioneer signals goes, it's not really possible because DecodeIR only looks at one signal at a time. To be able to make a decision as to which is the best Pioneer executable to use, it would have to be able to look at all of the learned signals at once. Now, it would be great if at some point IR could be enhanced to do just that (probably when IR and RM are eventually merged, if that ever happens). Then, the user could just learn all of the signals to the buttons that they'd like the functions to end up on, download the memory and press the "CREATE UPGRADE" button. IR would then call DecodeIR for each button and once all the decode info has been gathered, it would decide which executor to use and format an upgrade file. So, how wants to write that program, eh???
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[davecs]

Sorry, I just meant: Would it be a good idea for me to demonstrate how I got the two-stage codes out of the Pioneer r/c using a learning remote like the URC-7560? You didn't have the data for my particular machine on site, and therefore I think that there will be other units which use Pioneer Mix which have problems.

If people can do that, they can submit the stuff to you for the spreadsheets.

PS re ir.exe 6.0 I have tried running it on my main computer (without the parallel port) and it renders one of my devices incorrectly (showing 2-bit hexcodes instead of one and ignoring the fixed bytes). And what's with the "large" EFC numbers? Can I test them with MAGIC-xxxxx if not what use are they? These are the reasons I have not yet transferred it to the laptop I use for JP1 programming.
_________________
URC7560/URC7562, URC8910, URC7980, URC6440/OARUSB04G and URC3661