Discretes for SHARP combo VCR/DVD Player

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:13 pm

1. Device: SHARP DV-NC85
2. Type of device: Code-Free Multi-system VCR/DVD Player
3. Remote model: RS 15-2117
4. JP1 user? Yes
5. Still have original remote? Yes
6. Checked Yahoo file section? Yes
7. Checked Pronto file section (at R/C)? Not Yet

Building this upgrade. Lots of questions as I go.

DVD functions decode as Kaseikyo 170.90 Device 8; Sub-device 48; Misc: E=1

VCR Functions decode as Sharp 3.

(But a lot of the decodes weren't real clean, with mixed in Asynch's, and Gaps, and sometimes the same OBC/EFC decoded twice consecutively in a signal learn)

I presume I need to build two separate upgrades. Is the Sharp 3 resident in the 2117? (The few Sharp VCR upgrades I've seen seem to use this protocol/device combination)

The Kaseikyo appears to be a pretty unique bird. Not a single upgrade (that I have found) uses this (although the protocol help in RM is quite clear and helpful)

The DVD/VCR select and "Operate" (Power) buttons use only the Kaseikyo protocol and appear to be toggles. Anybody have any knowledge off the top of their heads of any discrete power, input and/or function select codes for a Sharp combi player?

This thing just strikes me as a pretty weird unit: for example despite the different protocol/device for each half of the unit, the OBCs for the numbers are identical (1-10 for 1-0) while other OBCs differ completely - i.e. rew/play/ff are 35/34/33 for the VCR, but 47/38/48 for the DVD.

Finally - it seems unusual (or does it?) to have two completely different systems/protocols used in a single OEM remote for a single component. Is there any relationship between the Sharp and Kaseikyo protocols?

Thanks

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:08 pm

Kaseikyo is the generalized protocol for what we all thought was the new Japanese standard. Variations include Panasonic, Fujitsu, and what we used to call SharpDVD (and Sharp AirConditioners and Sharp HDTV receivers) format.

So I'm guessing that if you found files for Sharp DVD's and Sharp VCR's you will get most of the commands. In reality it is two devices in one case sharing a power supply and audio/video outputs, so I suspect that Sharp retained the IR command sets for each device.

Since you don't want to confuse the DVD part with VCR part anyway, maybe just set up two devices and they can happily enjoy two different IR protocols

I am pretty sure RM has support for Kaseikyo and KM may still call it SharpDVD, but we'll figure it out (meaning you do the work and "we" pontificate

)

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:26 pm

Well, I've searched both at Yahoo and RC and have found a grand total of THREE Sharp DVD player files. One Pronto file uses the same Kaseikyo protocol and has no discretes.

A second one apparently uses a Sony protocol (while a Samsung VCR in the same file appears to use Sharp 3 - ?!?!) so it is of no help.

The only Sharp DVD player at Yahoo is over 2 years old and uses the "sharp DVD" protocol. Is Kaseikyo 170-90 8:48 simply a different decode of "Sharp DVD"? or are they genuinely different protocols?

Here is the complete list of functions and OBCs I've learned and decoded and gleaned from the Pronto file referred to above:

1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
0 10
Display 23
DVD Setup 25
DVD Menu 27
Enter 28
Return 29
Program/Repeat 30
up arrow 32
down arrow 33
left arrow 34
right arrow 35
Play 38
Stop 39
Pause 42
Slow 44
Skip >> 45
Skip << 46
Rew 47
Fwd 48
Title 56
Subtitle 59
Audio 60
Operate (power toggle) 65
Open/Close 66
On Screen 67
Zoom 120
Function Control 124
VCR/DVD Selector 127
VCR<DVD 128

The Pronto file which yielded a few functions with the Kaseikyo protocol has a host of variable speed functions tied to the DVD device (1/2x, 4x, 8x, 30x fwd and reverse) that use a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT Protocol/Device (NEC2 69) combo. Is this truly possible? Is THIS protocol somehow related to the Kaseikyo/Sharp DVD protocol family?

In any event, NONE of these upgrades has discretes for power on/off.

Anybody have any bright ideas before I embark on a code test?

I am merely seeking any insight into this (to me) rather bizarre and (again to me) RARE protocol/device. I have not exhausted all of my options by any means. i.e. I haven't been able to actually plug the unit in yet! So I may have the simple "Play/Stop" discrete on macro available

Post by **The Robman** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:41 pm

Once you have nailed down the right protocol and device codes (which it sound slike you have) and you've created an upgrade that works, the next step is to document which OBCs are covered by the physical buttons on the original remote, then create upgrades for all the missing OBCs, starting with the obvious gaps, then load 'em up and test 'em.

Even if you don't find the discretes that you're looking for, you might find some other goodies.

johnsfine · Post by **johnsfine** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:36 am

Capn Trips wrote: The only Sharp DVD player at Yahoo is over 2 years old and uses the "sharp DVD" protocol. Is Kaseikyo 170-90 8:48 simply a different decode of "Sharp DVD"?

Kaseikyo 170-90 is the ONLY decode of Sharp DVD.

There are several varieties of Kaseikyo, varying in how they compute the check nibble or check byte. The ones that match my best guess at the meaning of the Kaseikyo spec are decoded as "Kaseikyo". The only major one of those is Sharp, which is Kaseikyo 170-90.

I assume KM's "Sharp DVD" protocol generates Kaseikyo 170-90 with the correct check nibble. But KM's Kaseikyo protocol probably doesn't generate that check nibble.

Capn Trips wrote: The Pronto file which yielded a few functions with the Kaseikyo protocol has a host of variable speed functions tied to the DVD device (1/2x, 4x, 8x, 30x fwd and reverse) that use a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT Protocol/Device (NEC2 69) combo. Is this truly possible? Is THIS protocol somehow related to the Kaseikyo/Sharp DVD protocol family?

The ones of those NEC2:69 signals that I looked at looked like bad learns. But they didn't look like bad learns of Kaseikyo. There is enough internal redundancy that my best guess is that the NEC2:69 decodes are correct even though the signals aren't learned very well.

I suggest trying them. I suspect that whoever built that CCF got some signals from an unrelated device mixed in and when you try them, they'll do nothing. But they're easy to try, so you might as well find out (and tell us).

Capn Trips wrote: In any event, NONE of these upgrades has discretes for power on/off.

The only discrete On/Off I've seen in Kaseikyo-170.90 is for a "Sharp Aquos". I don't even know what kind of device that is.

They are device 8, subdevice 18, OBC 74 for On and 75 for Off.

You might want to try those, both with the subdevice 18, and changing the subdevice to the one matching the rest of your signals. Most likely the DVD has no discrete On/Off. But in case it has them, Sharp might be consistent in duscrete codes across devices.

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:28 pm

John, the Sharp Aquos is an HDTV series and I think all or most are LCD's. There has been a big thread on discrete inputs at RC in the discrete forum. What is the link to the ccf file for the Aquos using the Kaseikyo protocol?

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:18 pm

Short summary - basically, only the functions I have learned and decoded seem to work in an upgrade (a Sharp 3 for the VCR section, and the Kaseikyo 170-90 8:48 for the DVD section).

Longer boring detail: The NEC 69 codes from the one Pronto file that had some of the Kaseikyo codes in it do nothing.

A handful of other Kaseikyo codes found in a Yahoo Groups KM file also don't do anything on THIS unit.

No discretes have yet been located - as I stated earlier, I'm looking for a discrete Power command and discrete output selction (VCR/DVD is a toggled output) - all of the usual places have yielded no joy on On/Off or output discretes for either Sharp DVDs or VCRs.

I tried the OBCs listed above for a Sharp TV On and Off - also didn't work.

Of possible workarounds, "Play" (DVD or VCR) doesn't power up the unit (rats!) However, I have found that the "Open/Close" command will power up the unit. Unfortunately, it takes about 15 seconds to power up and open the DVD tray, during which time it WON'T recognize any other command being sent, so an "Open/Close, Open/Close" macro is impractical, unless I introduce an ENORMOUS time delay (and sit there holding the remote properly pointed!)

As for the output, I'll have to wait a few weeks until my entire system is set up, but I believe I will be able to get by using only the VCR output (this selection governs the output of the Analog audio/video signals only) as the DVD outputs are (the ONLY signals) available via the Digital outputs, and are independent of which device is selected - so I'll have Digital=DVD and Analog=VCR.

The Power discretes are the REAL PITA however. I guess I may have to go with ToadTog. Is Sharp notorious like Toshiba in this regard?

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:15 pm

What is the power toggle command that turns it on?

Capn Trips · Post by **Capn Trips** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:58 pm

jon_armstrong wrote:What is the power toggle command that turns it on?

OBC 65 ("Operate") toggles the power, and

OBC 66 ("Open/Close") will:
(1) If OFF - power on and open the DVD tray;
(2) If ON and closed - open the tray; and
(3) If ON and open - shut the tray.

(You cannot power down the unit with the tray open, it will automatically close)