Lost in space

[deb1919]

I'm having a lot of trouble grasping the concept of how JP1 works. That little 40-watt bulb over my head just won't click on, no matter how much I read. My remote is a modified URC-6131.

What I want to do:

1. Add a few codes to existing devices in the remote's existing library. It operates everything I have without modification, minus an imporatant code or 2. I have the necessary codes in CCF format, which I've run through CCF2EFC.

2. Move a few codes within devices to their proper buttons. It seems the layout for the Sony DTiVo was created by someone who never used one. Several buttons are redundant, others do the wrong thing, and a few are missing.

What I don't grasp:

1. The terminology. I've always referred to a complete group of codes for a product as a codeset. Here, it seems to be called a device (?). Can an existing device be directly modified, or does a new device have to be created for even the smallest change?

2. How Excel is used for anything relating to a remote control. I can see using it for viewing a particular layout, but that's about it.

The extent of my IR-manipulation experience comes from Philips Prontos & Crestron DEAL, both of which are dictating my logic. It seems JP1 is vastly different from both, and I haven't cracked the shell yet. Sort of like an entrenched PC user who can't grasp how a Mac works.

Any simple bit of logic anyone can offer to help click on that light bulb would make my day.

- Doug

[johnsfine]

1. Add a few codes to existing devices in the remote's existing library. It operates everything I have without modification, minus an imporatant code or 2. I have the necessary codes in CCF format, which I've run through CCF2EFC.

As you mentioned, terminology is a problem for beginners, so we don't know what you mean by "codes". I think you mean more commands within an existing Setup Code. Those are normally (and most easily) done as KeyMoves.

2. Move a few codes within devices to their proper buttons. It seems the layout for the Sony DTiVo was created by someone who never used one. Several buttons are redundant, others do the wrong thing, and a few are missing.

That's also normally done as KeyMoves.

1. The terminology. I've always referred to a complete group of codes for a product as a codeset. Here, it seems to be called a device (?).

"Device" is used a few ways in JP1, sometimes it sort of means codeset, but a codeset corresponds more accurately to a "Setup Code".

Long ago I made a FAQ for JP1 terminology. Rob recently moved that to here:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/jp1/faq/10116934.shtml

In there you may notice the definitions for "device mode", "device number", "device type", and "device upgrade". All of those are very distinct concepts in JP1, so when people leave out the second word of any of those, a JP1 expert knows which is meant from context, but it's likely a beginner will get lost. (And that's before you get into subtle distinctions, such as between a device mode, a device index, and a device key, which from a beginner viewpoint are all the same thing).

Can an existing device be directly modified, or does a new device have to be created for even the smallest change?

You can't modify any built-in setup codes, but you can override individual keys using KeyMoves. The resulting behavior of overriding with a KeyMove is probably exactly what you mean by modifying an existing setup code, but the method is different.

Often it IS easier to just create a new setup code (AKA a "device upgrade")

2. How Excel is used for anything relating to a remote control. I can see using it for viewing a particular layout, but that's about it.

Excel has the power of a full programming language. I find it amazingly awkward to use that power and I hated the small fraction of the JP1 programming that I did in Excel. But some of the other JP1'ers (Mark and Rob at least) achieve incredible things using Excel as a programming environment.

I suggest you use RM instead of KM. Even without a bias against Excel, I think most people find RM's UI more intuitive.

[The Robman]

Just in case this isn't part of the stuff you've already read, check this out...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/jp1/help

[deb1919]

Thanks guys.

Yes Rob, I've read through the documents on your site, but I'll be reading them many more times I'm sure, as they become clearer each time. I promised I wouldn't bug you directly. 8)

John, I appreciate the explanation in terminology. I'm sure it will become more clear as time goes on. One problem I'm finding is the word "code", which to me means a single IR command, and "setup code" means the brand numbers in the back of the manual. I've got to learn to point my brain in the proper direction for all the documentation to make sense.

The only really imporatant thing I want to do is get the Sharp RPTV screen aspect command into my remote. I've looked through existing device upgrade files but have not found one containing it. I'd almost like to pay someone to do it for me, then "reverse engineer" it to see how it was done.

Ah well. Onward.

- Doug

[johnsfine]

The only really imporatant thing I want to do is get the Sharp RPTV screen aspect command into my remote.

Was that one of the ones you said you had a CCF file for?

I looked at Sharp TV's and Sharp projectors at RC (don't know what an RPTV is) but saw nothing that looks like an aspect command.

How are the ordinary functions for the Sharp TV supported? (Built in setup code? Which one? Existing upgrade? Which one?)

What's the exact model name of the TV? (Some of the Premise Systems IR data and some LIRC data is by model number, so I wouldn't know which would be RPTV).

If you have the original remote and no other source of the data, you might be best off buying an 8810w to learn the signal, even if you will be using the 6131 once you have the right signal (if I'm remembering right that the 6131 doesn't have learning).

[deb1919]

I have several hundred CCFs, including ones for my own stuff... been programming Prontos since they existed. I just prefer hard buttons.

RPTV = Rear Projection TV... Mine is a Sharp 61RWP4H. Its aspect button is called "view mode". When run through CCF2EFC, I get this:

Button(0001F2F8)=28,150 "VIEW" freq=38.0KHz
(SHARP):1:160 ?EFC=234 {in single part}
(SHARP):1:160 ?EFC=234 back half {in repeated part using 16 of 32 pairs}
(SHARP):1:160 ?EFC=234 {offset 16 in repeated part using 16 of 32 pairs}
"Learned"
0000 006D 0010 0020 000B 0046 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 0046 000A 001E 000A 0047 000A 0047 000A 001E 000A 06FF 000B 0046 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 0046 000A 0047 000A 0047 000A 0047 000A 0047 000A 001E 000A 0047 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 0046 000A 065E 000B 0046 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 001E 000A 0047 000A 001E 000A 0046 000A 0047 000A 001E 000A 0703

I don't know what you mean by "how are they supported"

[johnsfine]

You're using an old version of CCF2EFC without DecodeIR.dll. In many cases, that will give you a worse answer than a newer version with DecodeIR.dll. Actually you should switch to the DecodeCCF program (also with DecodeIR.dll). It is better than even the newest CCF2EFC.

But in this case the decode is right: Sharp protocol, device 1, OBC 160, EFC 234.

By "how are they supported" I meant that you're asking about just one function for your Sharp TV, implying that you already have the other functions working, so I was asking what you programmed into the 6131 to get those other functions working.

Now that I see the above Pronto hex, I can guess that you used a built-in setup code either TV/0093 or TV/0688.

Assuming you used a built-in setup code (not an upgrade). It's easiest to add the extra function as a KeyMove.

Using the KeyMoves tab in IR.EXE you can "Add" a new KeyMove for the key of your choice ("Bound" with the TV device, assuming that is the way you want to use it) defined as TV/0093 EFC 234

[The Robman]

Using the KeyMoves tab in IR.EXE you can "Add" a new KeyMove for the key of your choice ("Bound" with the TV device, assuming that is the way you want to use it) defined as TV/0093 EFC 234

Actually, if he's using a URC-6131, it would be better to program the keymove the old fashioned way on the remote itself, as the URC-6131 uses the new 2-byte keymove format.

[johnsfine]

program the keymove the old fashioned way on the remote itself

I forgot that little detail (KeyMoves for a 6131 are tricky to define in IR.EXE).

I hope Doug knows the 994 method of defining a KeyMove on the remote itself.

Quick summary (I hope this is right for 6131).
1) select a device key that is already programmed to either TV/0093 or TV/0688.
2) Long press of Set
3) Key in 994
4) short press of Set
5) Key in the EFC (which is 234 for this command)
6) (optional) press a device key to define the KeyMove in a different device mode.
7) Press the key onto which you want to define the KeyMove.

[deb1919]

THANK you... that makes perfect sense.

>> I hope Doug knows the 994 method of defining a KeyMove on the remote itself.

I do, but only as described in the manual. It makes no mention of being able to type in a code, only to take an existing key from somewhere else. Now I know the other way.

>> You're using an old version of CCF2EFC without DecodeIR.dll

I got CCF2EFC & DecodeIR.dll from the Yahoo group only a couple of weeks ago, according to someone's FAQ. I will now correct that.

I'll give this a try. I still want to figure out how to make the device keys do macros, but that's for another time.

Thanks, Doug

[johnsfine]

I got CCF2EFC & DecodeIR.dll from the Yahoo group only a couple of weeks ago, according to someone's FAQ. I will now correct that.

It hasn't changed nearly that recently, so my next guess is that you put DecodeIr.dll somewhere that CCF2EFC couldn't find it.

I never use CCF2EFC anymore (DecodeCCF is better for almost all uses) so maybe I'm misremembering something. But I though output such as you quoted

"(SHARP):1:160 ?EFC=234 back half "

Only came from the old decoder CCF2EFC used if it didn't find DecodeIR.dll