JP1 Remotes Forum Index JP1 Remotes


FAQFAQ SearchSearch 7 days of topics7 Days MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister
ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Finding IRScrutinizer

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - Software
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vickyg2003
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6946
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Finding IRScrutinizer Reply with quote

This is a continuation of a conversation started in another thread.

vickyg2003 wrote:
Barf, I didn't have the latest version. Check for updates revealed that. But it took me forever to find 1.4.1 on your website. I got very frustrated and gave up twice. But before I came back here and exposed my dumbness I gave it one last try and found the download page for the finished product. and then of course once I did, I had a fight with Norton to allow me to install it, but it did the job as promised. Could you make the link to the latest release finished product more obvious.


Barf wrote:
Vicky,

The download of the latest released version is Github, and Github only, here.

The current, "experimental", development version is found here.

Just uploading to a number of different places is simply too much work.

With a quick check, I could not found any erroneous or misleading information on my website. If you can tell me exactly what is wrong, or have concrete suggestion I am all ears.

The exception is the first post of this thread. I have tried to ediit it: when I click "Preview" I get only an empty page, so I presume that "Save" would effectively empty the post. Can you have a look at that?



One of the things I've known even before working with the JP1 groups, when working with software that is in development, you should be using the latest and greatest but need access to prior versions if something that used to work doesn't. I find the procedure difficult with IRScrutinizer and Remotemaster for that matter, but I'm just dealing with IRScrutinizer in this thread.

IrScrutinizer is my goto tool for dealing with LIRC. I seldom work with Lirc so I don't check for updates all that often and the procedure is always fuzzy at best. In fact I always take so many wrong turns that I'd be hard pressed to repeat the procedure the next day.

Lets start with the Check for Updates on the Tools menu of IrScrutinizer. . Please forgive me if this has been handled someplace between version 1.00 and 1.4.1
Check for updates reported that the latest version was 1.4.1 but I was using 1.0.0.
The only option was OK which does nothing but close the dialog box. It would have been very helpful to have a copy-able link to navigate to the download page. I say copy-able because I often have trouble getting to github with my default browser that has internet security enabled.

Since it didn't, the next step was to click on the Project home page in the help menu which took me Welcome to the HARCToolbox project page.
A quick glance revealed a Download tab at the top of the page. Ahh that's probably where to get it. The current software is available on Github. If its there, I can't find it! Lets go back to the project home page and look harder. Oh there it is “2017-03-16 New version 1.4 of IrScrutinizer” way down the page. Hmm that just brings me to thr IrScrutinizer documentation page. Lets find the download in the JP1 file section.

Oops IrScrutinizer is not in Tools File section, it must be in Programs File Section, oh yeah there it is. .....


Download. Unzip and I got a message stating "Do you want to replace file dated 6/16/17 with one dated 3/30/16." Oops going backwards, lets not do this, luckily I'm still using Windows 7 instead of 10 where there is basically no information about the date!!!

So lets Click on the website page in the JP1 section.
It takes me to the IrScrutinizer documentation

Lets look around for the IRScrutinizer page.. . . Oh there's a Current tab. Downloads held archives, maybe Current held links to the download. Ah there it is IrScrutinizer, a very advanced IR program.

Its ground hog day! I'm back at IRScrutinizer Documentation! If all roads link to the documentation page, maybe its time to read the fine print. Keep hitting Page Down (7 times on my browser) and voile you finally find Download The latest official release is always available here.

In my opinion this is not easy to navigate. I didn't even think to check the announcements on the software forum. Which according to you can't be edited, and now I'm afraid to try.

I agree its not easy to have link's in many different pages, but I don't think the download should be so hard to find. I think that should have been somewhere else. Maybe right at the top of the page before the documentation.
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Barf
Expert


Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 780

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vicky,
thank you very much for all your suggestions.

First of all, the program is free (sometimes called "open source") software. It is not only available free of charge but also available in source form. Everyone is invited to help improve. Constructive criticism (like yours) is certainly one way of contributing.

I know that the web site has some problems. For example, "program documentation" takes you to a reference manual, were a lot of (for the beginner uninteresting) detail is convered, instead of giving an overview of the program and its capacities. This is particularly embarrassing in the light of the much more accessible tutorial.

To address one problem at a time, I will not cover the issues with the website here. (Also, I plan to do some Youtube videos; people don't like reading these days anyhow...)

All releases (with the exceptions of some very old) are available here, released versions as well as a snapshot/continuous build. . I think this should satisfy the requirements. It is IMHO quite a step ahead of Remotemaster.

Quote:
Lets start with the Check for Updates on the Tools menu of IrScrutinizer. . Please forgive me if this has been handled someplace between version 1.00 and 1.4.1
Check for updates reported that the latest version was 1.4.1 but I was using 1.0.0.
The only option was OK which does nothing but close the dialog box. ...
link to navigate to the download page.

A shortcut to a download page may be a suggestion, but shortcuts is not what makes a program user friendly. It can even be claimed that they clobber. It does what it is supposed to do, what the user expects, and that is the most importan property.

Quote:
... a copy-able link to navigate to the download page. I say copy-able because I often have trouble getting to github with my default browser that has internet security enabled.

I think this deserves some elaboration. You have deliberately, possibly on Microsofts recommendation. crippled the user friendliness of your operating system. IrScrutinizer and also RM contains several functions that, for the convenience of the user, calls the system's browser to show pertinent information. You have disabled it because of perceived security issues. You should not expect these program to work to 100% because of this. But you suggested "a copy-able link". (If you turn on the "Verbose" flag, found under Options, the URL will be printed to the console, copy-able.) So that would mean, for example, to copy a URL to the clipboard instead of opening. That could be called "cripple browsing mode", available as an option. Having yet another option is not something that makes a program easier to use. People will ask "'crippled browsing mode', what is that?" It needs a description, which will probably be several sentences long. Moreover, options like that, which are not widely used, tend to break with time. Summing up, I think the arguments against "crippled browsing mode" are stronger than the arguments in favor of that option.

I am not willing to reduce the functionality and user friendliness of IrScrutinizer because of Window's "internet security". Possibly there is a "white list option" in the security options on Windows?

Quote:
Download. Unzip and I got a message stating "Do you want to replace file dated 6/16/17 with one dated 3/30/16." Oops going backwards, lets not do this, luckily I'm still using Windows 7 instead of 10 where there is basically no information about the date!!!

Normally, you use the setup.exe version on Windows. It is user friendlier and safer. Overwriting an existing installation file per file is a very error prone thing to do. IrScrutinizer has a proper installer (RM does not...)

Finally, if I have forgotten something important, or if you do not agree, let me know. Suggestions are always welcome. Thanx again for the contribution. Razz

Remark: I am not, at least a priori, against "internet security". I am saying that the one enabling it should be aware of its advantages and disadvantages, and know that it is his/her decision.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
vickyg2003
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6946
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barf wrote:
Vicky,
I know that the web site has some problems. For example, "program documentation" takes you to a reference manual, were a lot of (for the beginner uninteresting) detail is convered, instead of giving an overview of the program and its capacities. This is particularly embarrassing in the light of the much more accessible tutorial.

I think its human nature to want to try the software and if you can't figure it out, THEN read the manual. I thought all roads leading back to the IRScrutinizer Documentation page was your way of saying RTFM!!! You do have links to the Tutorial under help. My problem with this is that you have to read through 7 pages of documentation before you find the only link on your website to find the link to the finished product.

Quote:


To address one problem at a time, I will not cover the issues with the website here. (Also, I plan to do some Youtube videos; people don't like reading these days anyhow...)

All releases (with the exceptions of some very old) are available here, released versions as well as a snapshot/continuous build. . I think this should satisfy the requirements. It is IMHO quite a step ahead of Remotemaster.


90% of my problem, is the navigation of your website. Your definition of releases is a lot different than mine. I have been down that rabbit hole before! You get to the harctoolboxbundle and you find a link to IrScrutinizer. Click on that link and your options are.
Code:
src          Bumped version to 1.4.1. Updated release notes.    22 days ago
test/testfiles       Misc cleanup and documentation updates.    2 years ago
.gitignore       Remove some unneeded entries in .gitignore-s.    2 years ago
IrScrutinizer.icns    Implemented installation of the program on the host.    2 years ago
LICENSE.txt       Copying to HarctoolboxBundle    2 years ago
README.txt       General overhaul of READMEs and installation instructions etc.    2 years ago
pom.xml


Again no link to the release page where you can get down to the user friendly release options and the finished compiled product.



Barf wrote:
Vicky wrote:
Lets start with the Check for Updates on the Tools menu of IrScrutinizer.
The only option was OK which does nothing but close the dialog box. ...
link to navigate to the download page.

A shortcut to a download page may be a suggestion, but shortcuts is not what makes a program user friendly. It can even be claimed that they clobber. It does what it is supposed to do, what the user expects, and that is the most important property.
....

I am not willing to reduce the functionality and user friendliness of IrScrutinizer because of Window's "internet security". Possibly there is a "white list option" in the security options on Windows?


Okay, a button that takes us to the latest and greatest download. Anything would be friendlier than the Easter egg hunt I go on each time I need to get the latest and greatest. I can disable my security in order to get there. No problem.



Barf wrote:

Vicky wrote:
Download. Unzip and I got a message stating "Do you want to replace file dated 6/16/17 with one dated 3/30/16." Oops going backwards, lets not do this, luckily I'm still using Windows 7 instead of 10 where there is basically no information about the date!!!

Normally, you use the setup.exe version on Windows. It is user friendlier and safer. Overwriting an existing installation file per file is a very error prone thing to do. IrScrutinizer has a proper installer (RM does not...)


Yes, but the zip file is what is stored in the Program section of the JP1 website. When I finally found the release download site, I did choose the EXE. How would a new user (or a Windows 10 user) know that the zip file found in the Programs section was out of date? Do you have ownership of that? Or do you need help in editing that to remove the zip?

Barf wrote:
Finally, if I have forgotten something important, or if you do not agree, let me know. Suggestions are always welcome. Thanx again for the contribution. Razz

Yeah I'm sure, Laughing. "Suggestions" always feel like an attack and you probably had to come down from a hard boil before you could be this polite.

I know you'd rather be dealing with the brainiacs than with me, but even they need to be able to find the release, unless they want to compile the source themselves, which is not what a typical end user wants to do.

[/code]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
pH7_jp1



Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 450
Location: Sterling Heights, MI

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I would try this myself to see what I think about the process. I knew I didn't have an up-to-date version (if any).

I put myself in the place of a user that knows he/she wants IrScrutinizer and belongs to the JP1 forum, but not much else. I instinctively went to the JP1 - Software forum. IrScrutinizer just happened to be the first on the list, so I didn't have any problem finding it. I did have to scroll down through the description of IrScrutinizer an the release notes, but the first reference I found about installing was the line that says:
Quote:
The download of the latest released version is Github, and Github only, here.
So that was easy to find. (Note to Vicky - You can right click on the word "here", or any link, and choose "Copy shortcut" from the pop-up menu. Thus any link that you can click on can be copyable without invoking the link.) This took me to GitHub. I agree that things are never quite clear for me anytime I visit GitHub but I did notice the line that says: "IrScrutinizer-1.4.1.exe: Setup for Windows" (this was the first on that list) and then further down on the page the link to click to download IrScrutinizer-1.4.1.exe (this was the 4th on the list at this point). Clicking on this link and running the exe installed that latest IrScrutinizer just fine.

So, I think the process worked fine for me. The only part that confused me for a short time was GitHub and this is pretty normal for me any time I end up there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vickyg2003
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 6946
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pH7_jp1 wrote:

I put myself in the place of a user that knows he/she wants IrScrutinizer and belongs to the JP1 forum, but not much else. I instinctively went to the JP1 - Software forum. IrScrutinizer just happened to be the first on the list, so I didn't have any problem finding it. I did have to scroll down through the description of IrScrutinizer an the release notes, but the first reference I found about installing was the line that says:

Yeah my instincts don't lead me to the discussion forum to find a download. I never got software from there except when I was actively pestering Greg and Mathdon over RemoteMaster on an open call for testers. I'm sure they both think of me as a PITA too.

That was a lot of scrolling 6 page downs to find that there was in fact a link there, and then 7 to get to the fine print where it says the page was recently edited, so you'd know that the links have a good chance of being current and not a post from 2013 as the header suggests.

Quote:

I did have to scroll down through the description of IrScrutinizer an the release notes, but the first reference I found about installing was the line that says:

Quote:
The download of the latest released version is Github, and Github only, here.
So that was easy to find.

If you say so. but I found that there it was too deep in the post, with nothing calling attention to the fact that this was indeed being kept up to date.

By the time my eyes have scanned that much text to find that the word here is a link. Shouldn't that edit note be at the very top
Quote:
Update 2017-07-07: Download links fixed. (Release notes are presently out-of-date.)

and where it says
Quote:
The download of the latest released version is Github, and Github only, here.

Shouldn't that be emphasized to draw your attention
Latest released version available HERE.


Quote:
This took me to GitHub. I agree that things are never quite clear for me anytime I visit GitHub

Once I got to that page I read the text and it was easy to decipher what to do, but finding the page was so HARD!
_________________
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic       JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - Software All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Get Smart! the band's official homepage Rockabilly Central