NAD 40A2 - learned signals question

t4_ravenbird · Post by **t4_ravenbird** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:30 am

Hi, I am using urc6440 with extender 1.04 and tried to create settings for a friend who has a TV from NAD called 40A2.

I did not find any upgrades for it so I started to learn from original remote but after a while found out that the remote actually flip-flops the transmitted signal each time I press a button.
So, to be clear, if I learn for instance 'power' 2 times in a row into 2 different buttons on my URC, say '1' and '2' then, when I look at the learned signals in RMIR I can see that they differ.
They are almost the same but there is a field 'misc' that alternates between t=0 and t=1.

I have overcome the problem by double-learning the few buttons that I need and using toad-togs to make my URC emulate the original remote. So it works, but I am wandering if it could be done better?

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=13758
This file should show the learned signals and also under 'special functions' show how I 'fixed' the problem with toad-togs ..

Ultimately I would have liked to convert the learned signals into an upgrade, but I was not able to do that for these learns. Is there any chance this could be accomplished?

Post by **The Robman** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:09 am

I'll look at your learns later but the phenomenon that you describe is fairly common, it's called a toggle bit. Several protocols have such a toggle bit, most notably the RC-5 protocol.

EDIT:
I just looked at your learns and they decode as RC-5, device 0, so now I am unclear as to what the problem is. I was expecting them to use an unknown protocol.

t4_ravenbird · Post by **t4_ravenbird** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:50 am

Thanks, my problem was that the learned signals did not work. When I used it the TV would ignore it since it was not flip-flopped and that took me a while to realize. I was not aware that this is used and even common and since RMIR was unable to 'convert learn to upgrade' I assumed it could not be done.
I understand now maybe I would need to try to create that upgrade manually by selecting filelds from the 'learn' and enter into a new empty upgrade. But I assumed I would not be able to figure out how to set that up when even the built-in function was unable to do so - so I never attempted.
I will give that a shot next time though, thanks!

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:42 am

Are you going to create an upgrade for this TV? If so, please remember to add it to the file section here, as we don't have this TV yet.

t4_ravenbird · Post by **t4_ravenbird** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:31 am

I might, but it is already operational so not sure I get around to do it. But if I do I will post it!

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:37 am

How did u make it operational because, as you found, learned RC5 signals don't work very well?

If you have learned all the buttons, could you at least post a copy of your RMIR file and I will create the upgrade. Even if you don't want it, others will.

t4_ravenbird · Post by **t4_ravenbird** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:40 am

I described my 'solution' is in the opening post, I used toad-togs, and you can see from the RMIR-file how. Check the 'special functions' tab and I think you will see what I mean.
I did not do a full recording since for my friends setup really only needed to power the TV on/off and be able to switch input. So therefore I dont have more than what it in the RMIR file.
I might record more at a later time, but now they are already off for x-mas holidays so I have no idea when that might happen

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:47 pm

it was a clever solution, but WAY overkill compared to what was needed. I was gonna create an upgrade for you, but couldn't really as you'd only learned 5 buttons.

Post by **The Robman** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:31 pm

Here's an updated version of your file:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=13766

I have removed all the learned signals, the toadtogs and the TV upgrade that was in memory and replaced them all with a new TV upgrade for the NAD that only includes the 5 buttons that you had included. I don't know if you were using any buttons from the RC5x TV upgrade that was in there, but if you were, we can create an upgrade that includes both RC5 and RC5x codes.

MrMoody · Post by **MrMoody** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:48 pm

Going from Harmony. Looks to be a close match for built-in code TV/0587.

Upgrade is here.

I have no way to test it, so let me know if it works.

t4_ravenbird · Post by **t4_ravenbird** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:53 am

Wow, thank you guys for extraordinary great support.
I will try to check it out, but as I said my friends are already off for x-mas vacation so I have no idea when I will be able to do so.
I now understand my 'fix' was overkill since there is built-in support for this protocol, so thanks for enlightening me

Post by **The Robman** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:25 am

MrMoody wrote:Going from Harmony. Looks to be a close match for built-in code TV/0587.

Upgrade is here.

I have no way to test it, so let me know if it works.

Thanks for that. Only thing I notice is, OBC 0 is button 0 in your upgrade, whereas t4 had OBC 0 as "AV" in his upgrade.

MrMoody · Post by **MrMoody** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:27 pm

The Harmony sends OBC 0 for both 0 and Input, learned them both 3 times to make sure.

Post by **The Robman** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:59 pm

I have updated my RMIR file to use Mr Moody's upgrade, only change I made was to also assign the 0 button to the AV button.

mdavej · Post by **mdavej** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:07 pm

Harmony database could be wrong. Happens all the time. The same code for 0 and AV makes no logical sense. Wouldn't that make it impossible to go to any channel with a 0 in it?