RMIR, TiVo Protocol and URC-8080B01 = EPIC Fail

ncoig · Post by **ncoig** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:00 am

So i've been beating my head against the wall with this setup, and I finally give up.

I've been using a an upgrade file from waaaay back when which contained a Tivo (Official) / hacked protocol. I've used this in my 15-1994's for eons. I've used it in a host of other remotes too, all without issue.

HOWEVER, having purchased a used 8080B01 and wanting to actually employ it, I've tried setting this remote up using the same protocol/setup file (changed to the 8080, of course). It has the awesome feature of having "Device specific upgrades", so that set me back for a long time, but then I started with a clean remote and put in a different TiVo upgrade and lo and behold, it worked. With one caveat -- it won't distinguish, even when I change the Unit code, between my first and second TiVo. Hasn't been an issue for around 10 years with any other remote.

So, thinking this is an issue with the protocol, I import into RMIR my file with the TiVo (Official) hacked version, which results in two things: 1) The remote sends NO commands that are recognized by the TiVo, and 2) a nasty message from RMIR every time I try to edit the device stating, "The code of the protocol for this device upgrade is not consistent with the protocol default parameters..." and I can't edit the device any longer...

In addition, (and perhaps related) this latest version of RMIR won't open my previous RM configurations containing this protocol on my 15-1994s. Whether the protocol is at fault here, I don't know, but when i go back and use RMIR 2.02b, it loads the files without issue, but 2.03 refuses to load the very same file, throwing an error, "Error setting new RemoteConfiguration" in the .err file, and stopping dead in its tracks.

I know the 8080 is a dumb remote, I should have not purchased it, but I did, and I'd like to know if I can use it for something besides a cool paperweight.

-N

PS - If anyone happens to know if ALL versions of the 7820 don't allow keymoves, that could be helpful in me tossing out a half dozen of these Cox remotes if I can't use them... I have a couple that are JP1.1, and a couple that are JP1.3...

mdavej · Post by **mdavej** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:24 am

Post your file please.

ncoig · Post by **ncoig** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:12 pm

RMIR File:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=13482

Device:
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=13481

THANKS!

mdavej · Post by **mdavej** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:58 am

I'm not seeing any of the above problems when I edit your files. They both look correct. Maybe someone else could take a crack at it.

ncoig · Post by **ncoig** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:53 pm

Screencap of error message: (not sure it's possible to put an inline image)

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=13483

-N

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:33 pm

I also do not get this error. However, your RMIR file linked above does not correspond to the screen capture: The RMIR file uses an upgrade with PID 0041, while the screen capture has an upgrade with PID 0111.

And, the linked RMDU file apparently doesn't correspond to either one. So, I'd delete the Tivo upgrade (including its protocol executor) and then load your favorite RMDU file.

ncoig · Post by **ncoig** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:37 am

Apologies, unsure how that got turned around.

I loaded the upgrade in question, and saved the RMIR file and put it here:

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... e_id=13484

-N

Post by **mathdon** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:04 am

This is not due to a difference in the program between RMIR v2.02a and v2.03, it is due to a change in protocols.ini in the meantime. If you use the same protocols.ini I think you will get the same error message in v2.02a.

I know nothing about the TiVo protocol(s) but the protocols.ini entry for TiVo (Official) is erroneous. The device data has 3 fixed bytes and 1 command byte, but the protocol code for four of the processors requires 2 fixed bytes and 2 command bytes. Of the six processors listed, only the S3C80 and MAXQ610 codes are consistent.

It appears to me that what you actually need is not TiVo (Official) but TiVo (Official 2-byte). Unfortunately you cannot change the protocol as things stand, as you cannot edit the device upgrade, but you can force it as follows. Use the Edit Protocol button, not the Edit button, to edit the protocol. It will open with the entry for the 740 processor highlighted in the Protocol Code box. Double-click this entry and edit the 3rd hex value from 22 to 31. Press OK and then say NO when it asks if you want to cancel the edit as it is inconsistent.

You now have an erroneous but consistent protocol and so the Edit button will work. Use the Protocol drop-down box to change the protocol to TiVo (Official 2-byte). The data looks OK to me but I have no idea if it will work.

I will leave it to others to delete or correct the erroneous entries in TiVo (Official) as I have no idea where they have come from.

ncoig · Post by **ncoig** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:07 pm

This is certainly a mystery, and my eyes started glazing over at reading some of this as it's a fair height above my head.

In any event, I can sort of glean what you mean by these edits, but the suggested edit didn't yield a working result.

What I was able to do was to download another version of someone's TiVo upgrade file and work from it; what I don't understand is why the problematic file in question works just fine within the new 6540 remote, but not the Producer 8080 or Cox 7820.

What would have caused a change from version to version in the Protocol.ini file?

-N

ncoig · Post by **ncoig** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:11 pm

ncoig wrote:This is certainly a mystery, and my eyes started glazing over at reading some of this as it's a fair height above my head.

In any event, I can sort of glean what you mean by these edits, but the suggested edit didn't yield a working result.

What I was able to do was to download another version of someone's TiVo upgrade file and work from it; what I don't understand is why the problematic file in question works just fine within the new 6540 remote, but not the Producer 8080 or Cox 7820.

What would have caused a change from version to version in the Protocol.ini file?

-N

...and let me clarify -- I was able to use this file successfully in the 7820; the Producer will still have none of it...

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:33 am

I'm not quite sure about all of this. The Tivo entries in protocols.ini have not changed in any way since 2.02a, and even in 1.99c (October 2012) the only difference is the addition of the MAXQ code in the One Byte Official entry. The oldest protocols.ini file I looked at is from 2008, and all of the .Code lines are identical with those in 2.03 Build 6.

The Tivo section is, as Graham has already said, a mess. However, the Tivo Official One Byte entries for S3C80/S3F80, HCS08, and MAXQ are correct, and the S3F80 entry in for Tivo (Advanced) is correct. ncoiq, I suppose that the Advanced entry for the 740 is also correct, so try this Tivo (Advanced) upgrade which I know works for S3F80 remotes.

Also, the entry for Official Two Byte is correct for the S3C80/S3F80 and most likely for the 740. Under the assumption that the Two Byte entry is correct for the 740, I used the Lookup Tool to get EFCs for Video 0618 (the only setup code which uses Two Byte). I built an upgrade for the RCRP05B (a S3F80 remote-- like the 7820), and captured the resulting signals to verify that the upgrade works. Then I changed the remote type to 8080B01, and have uploaded the upgrade for testing. Please give this upgrade a try also, so that we can verify the Two byte entry in protocols.ini. The upgrade is setup for unit 0, and probably doesn't have all of the desired functions. If necessary, change the unit number before testing.

Graham,
See this older thread which discusses some of the issues with Tivo entries in RMIR. Read all the way to the end. Rob recommends that we remove Tivo (Advanced) from protocols.ini. However, there are three upgrades which employ Tivo (Advanced). I suppose that we could rework the three upgrades to use Tivo Official One Byte. BTW, the HCS08 code shown in Advanced is completely wrong--it doesn't even modulate the IR.

The entries for Official One Byte are correct for S3C80, HCS08, and MAXQ. I've revised the rest of the Tivo section; I think it's correct but I was only able to test with S3F80.

Code: Select all

[TiVo (Advanced)]
OldNames=TiVo Hacked,Tivo Hacked,Tivo (Advanced)
PID=00 41
CmdTranslator=Translator(lsb,comp)
CmdParms=OBC=0
DevParms=Main Device=133,Sub Device=48,Unit Code=0:0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8
FixedData=FF FF FF
FixedDataMask=FF FF 0F
DeviceTranslator=Translator(lsb,comp,0,8,0) Translator(lsb,comp,1,8,8) \
                 Translator(lsb,comp,2,4,20)
Notes=obsolete hacked version, which has been retained for compatibility with existing upgrades
Code.S3C80=43 8d 31 8b 12 cf 44 08 08 01 1a 01 06 01 1a 03 31 d7 42 11 a7 08 b7 08 05 E4 06 05 60 06 46 06 F0 54 C0 06 f6 01 46 46 29 0d 8d 01 49
Code.740=0D 18 31 80 15 E3 BE 01 16 08 08 01 A4 03 15 6B AB 55 06 C7 02 00 01 01 03 E5 A5 60 AA 49 FF 09 F0 25 5F 85 60 86 5F 4C 00 FF
Code.6805-C9=0D 19 31 20 15 C1 FE 00 16 08 08 01 9D 03 0E 38 FB 56 06 C3 02 00 7E A5 03 DB A6 04 B7 66 B6 5D 97 43 AA F0 B4 5C B7 5D BF 5C CC 01 83

[TiVo (Official)]
OldNames=Tivo (Official)
PID=01 11
CmdTranslator=Translator(lsb,comp)
CmdParms=OBC=0
DevParms=Main Device=133,Sub Device=48,Unit Code=0:0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8
FixedData=FF FF FF
FixedDataMask=FF FF F0
DeviceTranslator=Translator(lsb,comp,0,8,0) Translator(lsb,comp,1,8,8) \
                 Translator(lsb,comp,2,4,16)
Notes=This is the preferred protocol executor for JP1.2 and newer remotes
Code.S3C80=43 8D 31 8B 15 CA 5D 08 08 01 21 01 06 01 21 03 31 D4 FD 11 A7 08 B7 08 02 08 E4 05 07 56 07 F0 08 06 60 C0 56 C0 0F 44 C0 07 8D 01 46
Code.HCS08=20 18 22 48 31 CA 5D 08 08 01 16 01 1A 01 16 03 45 D7 56 11 A6 08 CB 08 02 08 B6 62 A4 F0 B7 64 B6 63 43 A4 0F BA 64 B7 64 CC FF 5F
Code.MAXQ610=33 6A 31 0E 15 00 15 00 15 00 3F 00 40 10 55 01 AA 00 00 80 10 16 D4 D2 F0 17 D5 D3 FF 16 D5 D5 0F 05 D4 D5 D4 62 D4 04 70 71 73 74

[TiVo (Official 2-byte)]
OldNames=TiVo Official,Tivo Official,Tivo (Official 2-byte)
PID=01 11
VariantName=2byte
CmdTranslator=Translator(lsb,comp,0,8,0) TranslatorFromDev(lsb,comp,2,4,8)
CmdParms=OBC=0
Notes=official version which was built in to some JP1 and older remotes
DevParms=Main Device=133,Sub Device=48,Unit Code=0:0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8
DeviceTranslator=Translator(lsb,comp,0,8,0) Translator(lsb,comp,1,8,8)
FixedData=5E F3
DefaultCmd=00 F0
CmdIndex=0
Code.S3C80=43 8D 22 8B 12 CF 44 08 08 01 1A 01 06 01 1A 03 31 D7 42 11 A7 08 B7 F6 01 46 46 29 0D 8D 01 49		
Code.740=0D 18 22 80 15 E3 BE 01 16 08 08 01 A4 03 15 6B AB 55 06 C7 02 00 01 01 03 E5 E6 69 4C 00 FF
Code.6805-C9=0D 19 22 20 15 C1 FE 00 16 08 08 01 9D 03 0E 38 FB 56 06 C3 02 00 7E A5 03 DB A6 04 B7 66 CC 01 83
Code.6805-RC16/18=11 24 22 20 10 CF 44 08 08 00 8C 8E 01 8C A3 6B AB 00 84 D3 66 16_7C 10_7C CC 01 B2

Post by **mathdon** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:38 am

Dave, thanks for the pointer to the history. Are you going to make these changes to protocols.ini or do you want me to do so?

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:28 am

Graham,
I would like to hear from ncoig that he has tested both the Tivo (Advanced) and Tivo Official Two Byte upgrades. Once he has done that, I will submit the change to protocols.ini.

Post by **The Robman** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:57 am

Some additional history. When UEI originally created their Tivo executor, they decided to make it use 2 fixed bytes and 2 variable bytes. Here in the JP1 world we decide to make it 3 fixed bytes and 1 variable byte as it uses less memory and it enabled advanced codes (in older remotes). Even though we called this version "advanced" it doesn't actually do anything that the regular executor doesn't also do (unlike the ReplayTV executor where we added lots of additional functionality).

Eventually, UEI saw the error of their ways and they converted the official executor to use 3 fixed bytes and 1 variable byte.

Now, the problem that Neil is having is specific to his Producer 8 remote which uses Mitsubishi 740 assembler, and this code is labeled as "740" in protocols.ini. Switching from the 2-2 format to the 3-1 format isn't as simple as changing the one byte from "22" to "31", there is additional logic that is also needed. The only version of the Tivo protocol in the file that has the 3-1 format is in the redundant [TiVo (Advanced)] section. So, the fix is to copy this over to the [TiVo (Official)] section.

Code.740=0D 18 31 80 15 E3 BE 01 16 08 08 01 A4 03 15 6B AB 55 06 C7 02 00 01 01 03 E5 A5 60 AA 49 FF 09 F0 25 5F 85 60 86 5F 4C 00 FF

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:32 am

Rob,
I believe that while both TiVo (Advanced) and Tivo(Official) have a 3/1 dev/cmd structure, the format of the 3rd fixed byte is different-- the nibbles are reversed. So it is my belief that we can't just copy the the 740 code from the TiVo (Advanced) section to Tivo(Official). That's why I'd like Neil to verify if the two suggested upgrades work.