8811 JP1 success

cougar97201 · Post by **cougar97201** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:38 pm

here are some notes from a newbie that very successfully used the JP1 forum and Yahoo site to build
a parallell JP1 cable and program an OFA 8811.

I looked long and hard for a shortcut using Devices and Devices4 and Advanced Code Lists but in the
end everything was falling short so i just bit the bullet and learned all my remotes into IR and manually
built KM devices from them, augmented with a few special things like discrete codes.
I got quite good at this as a large bank of buttons can be learned in one pass since most 8811 buttons are learnable.
a few passes and i had the remote dumped.
Only 1 device (bedroom VCR) did not have a remote and i had to resort to online codes..very painful there,
and the least important device

I found it useful to sacrafice an unused device (in my case CD) as a Macro programming device.
I don't have an extender and am therefore limited to non-nested macros of 15 strokes each.
using the device combiner protocol i was able to significantly cut down my device switching strokes
and was able to do quite a bit in 1 macro. i also combined the pause protocol and defined a few
pauses for use in the macros. I now view this device as a dumping ground for interesting protocols that can now
be freely accessed inside macros. The only drawback is the button names used in the macro definiton obscure
what's really going on...got to have the KM device combiner function/buttons sheet up for a cross reference when
working for macros in IR. renaming the buttons is KM would not help as IR macro definition uses fixed button labels
to the best of my knowledge.

one newbie trick that eliminated having to resort to pauses was interleaving the "power on"s inside
the macros. normally frequently switching the macro's attention between devices would cost strokes but
using the combiner device it cost nothing. i needed the pauses initially but am getting away without
them now...they are still there just incase...what could go wrong?

forum, files, documentation are great! this is a very mature hack with some great people contributing.
well done. the only suggestion would be to integrate KM and IR a bit more but I'm guessing that is already
happening via RM (which i have not tried yet).

These are not links...easy enough to find....

Uploading the following IR files in Yahoo > Files > User Configurations:

8811-Cougar97201.txt....................; not putting the whole setup on the OFA, just the most used ones.

Uploading the following KM files in Yahoo > Files > 3. Device Codes:

Panasonic_DVD_Player_XP30.txt......; full remotefunctions
Panasonic_VCR_PV-4551.txt............; full remote functions
Sanyo_VCR_VWM-360.txt................; (bedroom) this had a lost remote, codes picked up through code lists etc.
Sony_HT-DDW840_Simple.txt..........; i only use this for surround sound so i kept it simple
Toshiba_TV_57HX83_NoSM.txt.........; full remote functions w/o discrete codes for SM access, i prefer the SM menus

Uploading the following KM files in Yahoo > Files > Miscellaneous:

Device_Combiner_(CD).txt...............; dumping ground for special protocols and macro programming shortcuts

remote: $20; cable parts: $5 (i actually had them laying around); info: free; fun: priceless.

cougar97201 · Post by **cougar97201** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:17 am

EDIT: nevermind...i just found what i was looking for. looks like more special
protocols and probably and extender are in the future.
---------------------------

i looked around for the answer to this...sorry if i missed it.
can anyone tell me if there are "hidden" or phantom devices that can be used
on an 8811, rather than having to sacrafice a real device button?
i see references to hidden devices for other remotes but its a mystery
to me. the device would be used in macros only.
i have a non extended OFA 8811.
thanks.

ps. if not...is there another way do do what i am trying to do?
see previous post for explanation re: CD device usage if necessary.
thanks again.

cougar97201 · Post by **cougar97201** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:54 am

Here's an update to my original post incase it helps anyone. There's a couple of questions for developers at the end.

The Home Theatre mode on my 8811 was real close but not quite what i wanted so i built
another device_combiner device to configure it exactly the way i want it.
i created My_Home_Theatre device with a list off all of the device functions that my system might control.
then i picked the buttons as desired.

I have the luxury of dedicating 2 unused device keys:
CD for macros..buttons really only used inside macros (but could be used from keypad)
SAT for my Home Theatre. Macros select this as the last step when appropriate.
The real Home Theatre button is configured in IR for VCR viewing. It is also selected as the last macro step when appropriate.

I beleive this could have been done more elegantly with an extender but it looks like i won't
have to resort to that yet. not a big deal really...just nice i don't have to lose things like learning and
setup key EFC although its easy enough to back out to non-extender when desiring those things.
I am just barely getting away with non-nested macros and don't know how long i'll hold
out...so here is the stuff incase it provides info for non-extender newbies (like me) before i flush
all this and go with the extender (bound to happen sooner or later).

just incase someone is actually looking at these files to learn:
I generally watch TV with TV speakers but have a macro to automatically setup TV thru surround speakers.
i watch dvd's with the full blown home theatre setup, surround etc. Macros do this setup.
i watch vcr simply using the tv speakers. Macros do this setup
AUX is just an extra VCR in the bedroom i lost the remote for, does not participate in HT config.

here's the latest files (links this time):

8811-Cougar97201.txt ; not putting the whole setup on the OFA, just the most used ones.

DVD/Panasonic_DVD_Player_XP30.txt ; full remote functions
Panasonic_VCR_PV-4551.txt ; full remote functions
VCR/Sanyo_VCR_VWM-360.txt ; (bedroom) this had a lost remote, codes picked up through code lists etc.
Sony_HT-DDW840_Simple.txt ; i only use this for surround sound so i kept it simple
Toshiba_TV_57HX83_NoSM.txt ; full remote functions w/o discrete codes for SM access, i prefer the SM menus

Macro_Device_(CD).txt ; special protocols and macro programming shortcuts at expense of CD button
My_Home_Theatre_(SAT).txt ; implements complete flexibility for HT buttons at expense of SAT button.

Is this a Bug?
i was required to use a different setup code for each of CD and SAT buttons even though they both use
the same device_combiner protocol. I see no reason both can't be 1104. Is this a limitation of IR or the remote?
maybe i'm missing something....

Suggestion:
It would be nice to have a button in KM (right alongside LOAD and SAVE) to LOAD FUNCTIONS and SAVE FUNCTIONS
so one could use a common function list without having to resort to maintaining several identical
lists (one for each device that uses the list). The only caveat is loading new fuctions should not break the function/button mapping if a button's function was in both old and new list. doable? worthwhile?
admittedly i may be stretching intended use with my multi device function lists
If KM / IR is getting out of the way for RM then probably not worth the effort. Possible RM feature?

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:28 am

Just from looking at the description of some of your files, it looks like they might not contain a complete set of EFCs, this being because there are certain buttons that you didn't want to use (such as SM discretes, whatever they are, for your TV).

The preferred way to set up KM files is to include every function from the original remote, plus any others that you know about, in the Functions list, even if you don't use them for buttons yourself, because this way they are available for the next person to use, without them needing to go searching for the codes.

Here's a KM file that I recently created that could serve as an example: Toshiba-CZ32V51-TV.txt

cougar97201 · Post by **cougar97201** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:43 am

rob,
i understand what you are saying. i intentionally did not include functions
i was not interested in. for instance I found many functions for the TV service
mode...some of which worked and some that did not (obsolete function list)
so rather than test many things i did not want, i just tested and used what i wanted
and tried ot make a note in the file that it was not a complete list.

Is this is not OK for posted files at yahoio? should i remove it or ok as is?
i can see not cluttering that area with individual preferences like mine...did
not occur to me til you posted. I really don't want to try out dangerous / semi-dangerous EFC's on my TV unless i plan to use them.

I notice you included "M" mode as i did in mine. i was torn about
including it. On my TV "M" is NOT service mode. are you sure it is
on yours? on mine "M" may be almost as dangerous
as the 093 reset..the pros are not sure...and toshiba won't talk. hard to know where to draw the line. a newbie could
poke things disasterously using this function...i guess making a note
about the danger is the right way to go and provide the info.
You might want to warn on "M" mode as well if it is not the "known" service menu on CZ32V51. I just checked that model..."M" probably is the service
mode as was true with older sets (looks like 1999). still might warn.

sorry to turn this into tosh thread

might save someone some pain.

back to real question: should i not put files on yahoo unless all functions are
tested and listed regardless of note that it is not a complete list?

ps. apologies for ling winded posts...not my usual style...still banging around
trying to figure things out.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:04 am

You're more than welcome to leave your files "as is". The thing is, I often download KM files only to find that there are several functions missing from them, and there are often comments saying things like "I didn't include the surround commands because I don't use them".

My point was just that it's not good practice to omit functions from the functions list just because you don't personally want to use them. The idea of the seperate Functions and Buttons sheets is that you can first define all the functions from your original remote, then on the Buttons sheet you can decide which ones you want to use.

If you have a learning remote and therefore have the ability to decode all the buttons from your original remote, you're the best qualified to come up with a complete list. Down the road, someone will come along who either doesn't have the OEM remote anymore, or doesn't have a learning remote, so they won't have the ability to determine what the codes are for the buttons that you neglected to include.

Service Menu type functions are another story. I completely understand if you want to omit those from your file. I chose to include them in mine because I went to the effort of determining which ones work and which ones don't. I'm not a TV hacker, so I didn't change any of the settings, nor do I really understand what they do.

As to whether "M" is a service mode, I have no idea. All sending this EFC does is put the letter "M" on the screen. I assume that somebody somewhere knows what this does, but I don't. I labelled it as a "service menu" code to show that it's potentially dangerous, as are all "service menu" codes. In your opinion, what criteria makes a code a "service menu" code?

Just FYI, I don't believe I have any service "menus" as such on my TV, I was only able to bring up the individual settings (RCUT, etc).

I even used the manual method of invoking the service menu but all I got was an "S" on the screen, the arrow buttons didn't navigate to any of the settings screens.

cougar97201 · Post by **cougar97201** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:32 am

Rob,
understood.
my surround recvr is the only device that falls into the "learnable but did not
bother category". will fix that soon.

I'm not going to add service modes unless i test them...they change year to year
and can have disasterous effects (usually not...but tell that to the shmo
that fries his tv

)

i am a tosh tv hacker somewhat. i have some very interesting info concerning
83 series toshibas if anyone is interested. i can't post it at tv forums.
PM me if you want info.

here is service heirarchy:

Service Mode: accessed with special (and varying) "Mute" sequence...delivers service menu on
newer sets ("S" on screen). there are labelled and unlabelled functions in here

this is also the prefered way to poke cuts, drives etc. remote EFCs
is for older tv's i believe...i think they still work on newer sets though.

"M": maintenance mode on older sets and still gets red "M" on new sets
but pros claim they don't know what its for anymore and noone is talking.
i ain't gonna sacrafice my tv.

ADDR mode: for gut level hex pokers. very dangerous.

i just created a yahoo folder called "Virtual Devices" in Devices as i could not find an appropriate place for my macro and home_theatre devices. fixing
links in above post.

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:43 am

cougar97201 wrote:i just created a yahoo folder called "Virtual Devices" in Devices as i could not find an appropriate place for my macro and home_theatre devices. fixing links in above post.

There's a folder for "Home Theater Systems", which is where "all in one" and "complete systems", etc should go, and there's the "Misc" folder for everything else that's not covered by the main folders.

cougar97201 · Post by **cougar97201** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:46 am

i looked in files>misc and files>devices>misc and they both
seemed to only contain physical devices or documentation. i didn't want to dirty
it up. files> misc is where i originally put it...you want me to kill off
virtual devices and dump them there again?

Post by **The Robman** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:12 pm

I didn't understand what you meant by "Virtual Devices", but I've just taken a look at both of your files, so now I do.

In all honesty, I really don't think we need these. If you think about it, each person's setup is going to be different, so the chances of someone having exactly the same DVD player, receiver, etc as you are very remote (no pun intended), so it's highly unlikely that anyone else will be able to use these files. So, yeah, I would say we could lose the new folder.

But you have got me thinking, maybe now that we have some room in the file section, we could use a "Demo" folder where files like this would be totally appropiate. This folder could be used for people to show how they accomplished something difficult, then other people could download the files to see how it was done. I have just moved your two new files into this folder.

cougar97201 · Post by **cougar97201** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:21 pm

yeah, that was the intention...for those learning...hence links in newbie threads. i'll check it out and fix links in above posts. thanks.
EDIT: i see you already fixed em. thanks again.
EDIT: hmmm...makes me wonder if lots of IR dumps in User configs
(including mine) should be in the Demo>IR folder. i'll let it sit as is for now.