Questions regarding IRPMaster and IRMaster

[vickyg2003]

Hey Barf are you there, Or anyone else for that mater.

Okay, I absolutely hate being totally clueless. I know I looked at Barf's programs at one time, but I never used them.

So today, I had a few minutes of spare time, and thought I'd at least try to figure out what they are


I went looking in the File Section for IRPMaster and couldn't find it.

I found IRMaster, but couldn't find a sticky here to give me the slightest idea what it is.

I went to the Wiki but couldn't find anything about these tools or what they do or why I'd need them.

Can someone give me a clue here?


Barf????

[Barf]

Hi Vicky,

short version:
1. Forget about IrpMaster; it is for command line use and programming API. You do not need it, or even to know that it exists..
2. Download the windows installer, and double click it, install as you are used to on Windows.
3. Double click the program icon (either the full version or the lite version). Just "play around"; do not read the manual.

Longer version:
Historically, IrpMaster, which can be considered as the engine, was first. To use the more user friendly GUI (IrMaster), you do not even know that there is such a thing. (Like if you are using the firefox browser, you are using its "engine", called Gecko.)

Why the announcement tread was not made sticky, only Rob knows. It is properly linked from the file in the file section.

Since IrpMaster has much smaller target group, I do not distribute it separately: the compiled form is contained in the IrMaster distrubution. The sources (both for IrMaster and IrpMaster) are avaiable from my project home page.

Also see the IrMaster home page, and my project home page (www-button in footer.)

BTW, I am presently working hard at its successor, which will (propably) be called IrScutinizer..

[mdavej]

Why the announcement tread was not made sticky, only Rob knows. It is properly linked from the file in the file section.

Fixed

[vickyg2003]

Dave, Thanks for restoring the Sticky

Okay Barf, I have terrible feelings of Deja Vu. I don't want start snipping at each other, so I'm going to try to phrase this delicately.

Your home page scares me.

I read the restored the sticky, and can see that I liked IRMaster when I finally downloaded it.

When you get around to announcing IRScrutinizer, could you do an announcement that is more like an enticing advertisement, than a technical piece?

[Barf]

From another thread

I had read the help and got really, really confused. Avoid help and file manipulation is pretty easy.

That is not a very helpful statement. Assuming you are taking about my stuff; if you have better help texts to suggest, or even can point at what is not comprehensible, I would be happy to consider your suggestions.

Once I digest this I will write up something. Your software is easy to use. It offers some features that are really nice for dealing with other IR enthusiasts. Wav file and lirc file reading and creation for starters. I assume that since this is java based it will run on more platforms than irscope, so this gives people a way to plot signals when irscope is not an option. Seeing signals is really important for some of us. One of the other tools, Irscope I think, deals with short form pronto hex, does irmaster? The generation of a range of pronto hex is much easier with irmaster, than makehex and is again java based which opens it up to cross platform use. In the past I made a file for make
hex to generate some oddball pronto hex signals for a non-jp1 visitor. Now I just create an executor and shoot them at my widget. I have a feeling that this might be where irpmaster comes in. Since widgets are now impossible to get, this is an important feature.
I see that you also import ICT files. I assume this is only for single ict's not for the kind that holds a whole set of signals that we use for sharing info in the forums. Is this correct?

And what is lintronix? I have seen other references to that but don't know what it is.

I think it is more appropriate to answer here.

Nice to hear that you have started to appreciate IrMaster! To some of the questions:

short Pronto form: why not just try instead of posting questions? Paste the short form into the CCF window and press Decode (or Analyze or Plot)... (Also see this.)

IrMaster does not import LIRC, just exporting it. However, IrScrutinizer will do it very nicely.

IrMaster does not support capturing; however IrScrutinizer will, using not only the IrWidget, but also the GlobalCache iTachFlex (possibly also ITach?), IrToy, Arduino, and Lirc (using the Mode2 form). The first three also captures the modulation frequency.

IrMaster imports an ICT file with several captures as a single long IR sequence, which is admittably suboptimal. IrScrutinizer breaks it according to the names ("note" in the file), and does most of the work (not quite all yet) to convert it to an rmdu file.

Lintronix is a fairly trivial text format for a single IR signal. Graham (?) intoduced it in his version of the IrScope, and in his library ExchangeIR. I have no idea really who is the stake holder of this format; I just implemented it because it was simple . Graham, are you listening, and can enlighten us?

@mdavej: Thanx!!

[vickyg2003]

Okay Barf, I have been playing, and I agree this is the better place to post this.

I have questions, I've been playing with IRMaster,and have a question on the syntax for additional parameters. I see that this is case sensitive, OEM=2..... But what is the separator, if there are two items in the MISC column of a decode? Is it a comma, semicolon, space? And if there are two do they need to be in the order found in a misc column of a decode, or the parameter order of a device upgrade?

Nice to hear that you have started to appreciate IrMaster!

It is a very nice tool for talking with other remote enthusiasts. Cross platform. Deals with Lirc, WAV, gives other platforms a chance to plot a signal. Very nice. Of course lots of hardware features I won't be using, but again, it is nice to know that they are there.

IRScrutinizer sounds even more up my alley.

short Pronto form: why not just try instead of posting questions? Paste the short form into the CCF window and press Decode (or Analyze or Plot)... (Also see this.)

Just lazy, I didn't have any handy, and I read through the documentation, but didn't see it.

Lintronix is a fairly trivial text format for a single IR signal. Graham (?) introduced it in his version of the IrScope, and in his library ExchangeIR.

Seems to me that this was something that was in IRScope when KevinTimmerman wrote it. Then Graham took over, and really made IRScope indispensable.

IrMaster does not import LIRC, just exporting it. However, IrScrutinizer will do it very nicely.

Oh wow, I can't wait. I really struggle decoding LIRC by hand.


Do you want a beta tester for IRScrutinyzer? I'm a brutal tester , just ask Graham. I can also take these things private. I would love to have a look.

Are you going to withdraw IRMaster when you release IRScrutinizer?

[vickyg2003]

Oh one other thing,
On the Hex Calc screen, would you consider using LSB instead of reverse in the description field?

[vickyg2003]

Just looking, trying to figure out how to do some stuff.

I flipped through the various protocols in RM, looking for something that didn't fall into the D, S, F paradigm, came across the Denon K

{37k,432}<1,-1|1,-3>(8,-4,84:8,50:8,0:4,D:4,S:4,F:12,((D*16)^S^(F*16)^(F:8:4)):8,1,-173)+ [D:0..15,S:0..15,F:0..4095]

In Decodes you sometimes see OEM1 or OEM2 in the misc column. These occur when there is a different value than the 84:8 or the 50:8,

Now since the IRP doesn't have a variable there, the Additional Parameters is not enabled.

However I found in the
Options->IR Protocol Database>IrpMaster->Edit
would pop open a IrpProtocols.ini
and then I thought I could probably edit the 84 and 50 to be OEM1 and OEM2
Since I don't install my JP1 programs in Program Files, I was able to save the changes, and when I opened IRMaster again, OEM1 and OEM2 were there, but the Additional Parameters enable. So I am missing something here. How do you go about doing something like that?

And if I did install IRMaster in Program Files, where would IrpProtocols be stored?

I've been burned by the Window's "virtual stores" thing enough to know that installing jp1 stuff in the Program Files area, where you might want to change something like an ini or an rdf is never a good idea. So I always put JP1 tools in my jp1 folder off the root so I can tweak as much as I'd like.

[vickyg2003]

Well solved the OEM thing in a way. I just added a new protocol called Denon-V for Vicky, and coded the OEM value as a constant.

[Barf]

Oh, a lot of questions. Let's start.

.... But what is the separator, if there are two items in the MISC column of a decode? Is it a comma, semicolon, space?

It is presently a space or a tab. Or several of them. I can in principle add more like semicolon, but I am a bit reluctant on the comma, since it is used in some locales as decimal separator.

And if there are two do they need to be in the order found in a misc column of a decode, or the parameter order of a device upgrade?

order is not significant.

Lintronix is a fairly trivial text format for a single IR signal. Graham (?) introduced it in his version of the IrScope, and in his library ExchangeIR.

Seems to me that this was something that was in IRScope when KevinTimmerman wrote it. Then Graham took over, and really made IRScope indispensable.

Kevin, Graham, any of you want to comment?

Do you want a beta tester for IRScrutinyzer? I'm a brutal tester , just ask Graham. I can also take these things private. I would love to have a look.

Are you going to withdraw IRMaster when you release IRScrutinizer?

My present plan is to get a first, rough, version of IrScrutinizer released ASAP, instead of a beta test period. Then I will release the final version of IrMaster, probably somewhat ironically called version 1.0.0. (There are some bugfixes and additions, in particulat to the export formats, that I have not published yet.) Also, although IrScrutinizer replaces almost all of IrMaster, the export function is completely different, and the war dialer function is not there as such, but a (normally) much better functionality. So there will likely be someone who prefers the old one.

On the Hex Calc screen, would you consider using LSB instead of reverse in the description field?

Although strictly speaking incorrect, this may be a good idea, since "reverse" is not a concept that will give people the right associations.

In Decodes you sometimes see OEM1 or OEM2 in the misc column. These occur when there is a different value than the 84:8 or the 50:8,

Ir(p)Master only gives out what DecodeIR delivers.

Now since the IRP doesn't have a variable there, the Additional Parameters is not enabled.

Well solved the OEM thing in a way. I just added a new protocol called Denon-V for Vicky, and coded the OEM value as a constant.

Full score! Please note the possibility of giving the variables a default value, and the inheritance mechanism (like in metanec) (in the IrpMaster documenation).

Since I don't install my JP1 programs in Program Files, I was able to save the changes, and when I opened IRMaster again, OEM1 and OEM2 were there, but the Additional Parameters enable. So I am missing something here. How do you go about doing something like that?

And if I did install IRMaster in Program Files, where would IrpProtocols be stored?

IrMaster lets you store it/load it from any location, assuming appropriate rights.

I've been burned by the Window's "virtual stores" thing enough to know that installing jp1 stuff in the Program Files area, where you might want to change something like an ini or an rdf is never a good idea. So I always put JP1 tools in my jp1 folder off the root so I can tweak as much as I'd like.

To cut a long story short, IrMaster does everything after the book. You can either install in a normally used area, no admin rights required. Or you can, as administrator, install in Program Files. But as a non-admin user, you cannot overwrite the files you once installed. This is a good thing. Instead you install your own versions of files you want to change somewhere in your home directory, or somewhere else, where you can write, leaving the original install intact! The silliness starts when Windows (Vista and later) pretends to overwrite the Program Files version, but instead writes the file somewhere in a more-or-less hidden location; with your private version subsequently, more-or-less invisibly, hiding the original file. Microsoft.... , they never stop to surprise... So, just don't try to write to an installation in Program Files, and you will be happy.

[vickyg2003]

Oh, a lot of questions. Let's start.

..Are you going to withdraw IRMaster when you release IRScrutinizer?

My present plan is to get a first, rough, version of IrScrutinizer released ASAP, instead of a beta test period. Then I will release the final version of IrMaster, probably somewhat ironically called version 1.0.0. (There are some bugfixes and additions, in particulat to the export formats, that I have not published yet.) Also, although IrScrutinizer replaces almost all of IrMaster, the export function is completely different, and the war dialer function is not there as such, but a (normally) much better functionality. So there will likely be someone who prefers the old one.

Will the export in IrScrutinizer still have the wave, and raw lirc export? I consider IrMaster to be kind of a swiss army knife of IR tools. It replicates a lot of features found elsewhere and throws in some new stuff for communicating with the non-jp1crowd like WAV and raw lirc. For me personally the wav import and export, the lirc export and future import of lirc files is a huge selling point. And of course lets not forget to mention that this is a much friendlier way of making hex than MakeHex even with the MakeHex GUI interface. D, S, F is more user friendly, especially if you only use it occasionally.

IrMaster lets you store it/load it from any location, assuming appropriate rights.

I've been burned by the Window's "virtual stores" thing enough to know that installing jp1 stuff in the Program Files area, where you might want to change something like an ini or an rdf is never a good idea. So I always put JP1 tools in my jp1 folder off the root so I can tweak as much as I'd like.

The silliness starts when Windows (Vista and later) pretends to overwrite the Program Files version, but instead writes the file somewhere in a more-or-less hidden location; with your private version subsequently, more-or-less invisibly, hiding the original file. Microsoft.... , they never stop to surprise... So, just don't try to write to an installation in Program Files, and you will be happy.

Yes it really is sillyness. In there quest to allow legacy programs to run, they really made legacy programs harder to manage. The nature of jp1 experimentation works much better when you have full rights to the installation folder, so all my jp1 stuff is collected in my jp1 folder off the root.

[Barf]

Will the export in IrScrutinizer still have the wave, and raw lirc export?

Yes of course. The export function is just based on another model, table based instead of interval based, thereby allowing sensible names, user-defined ordering, several different protocols, etc.

Forgot to say: IrMaster contains two IR-renderers: There is also the possibility to use the Java version of Makehex as an alternative to IrpMaster. IrScrutinizer will not support Makehex: it is just too much work, the practical use is questionable, and IrMaster will still be there if someone really requires it.

I consider IrMaster to be kind of a swiss army knife of IR tools. It replicates a lot of features found elsewhere and throws in some new stuff for communicating with the non-jp1crowd like WAV and raw lirc. For me personally the wav import and export, the lirc export and future import of lirc files is a huge selling point. And of course lets not forget to mention that this is a much friendlier way of making hex than MakeHex even with the MakeHex GUI interface. D, S, F is more user friendly, especially if you only use it occasionally.

Thank you