NoobQuestion: Manual Programming or JP1 Cable Needed

dstew100 · Post by **dstew100** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:54 pm

If the discrete command I seek does not exist in the Setup Codes and corresponding EFC's found through the JP1 Lookup tool here, can they be manually programmed or is a JP1 cable required? Are the codes found in the files section (aka "Onkyo_TX-SR702-Zone2-v1.2.txt") able to be manually programmed?

And if your interested the background is below.
Hi all, joined over here from AVS as recommended by mdavej who's been helping me there. Did a lot of reading today and some tinkering (some successful, some not so much), don't have all the puzzle pieces put together in my mind yet.

My end goal is to get a non - JP1 AR Xsite Touch programmed, in order to get the discrete codes (zone 2 discrete amp on and off for Onkyo 818 mainly for now) in the XSite I'm looking into using JP1 as the intermediary to teach the XSite. The Onkyo remote just has the toggles, not great for the activities and macros as u know.

My JP1 remote is the Cox URC 7820B (actually the model on a sticker says URC7820ABP) but seems like the B from your DB as it is JP1.3 and the setup codes from the 7820B are mostly working with this remote.

I've been able to use the setup codes here, and manual associate EFC codes from here with other buttons (just testing/experimenting, like make volume + do volume - then put it back). I suspect the codes in the files section are not EFC's as I can not get any of them to do anything (although one time I got a random other "Aux Input" command when trying to do my "Zone2 trigger off").

Although once I get this remote doing what I currently desire, I assume I will want to do even more, but in reality right now I'm trying to teach the XSite just a few functions, not excited about buying a $30 cable for such a limited use.

Thanks for your time

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:41 pm

The Onkyo spreadsheet shows that Zone 2 Power On is D211 04. Translated from Hexadecimal it is Device 210, Subdevice 17, OBC 4.

We know from the Lookup Tool (link above on this page) that the 7820B carries the NEC1 Combo executor under setup code Audio 1298. Using RemoteMaster, and selecting NEC1 Combo executor, we can enter 210 into the device field and 17 into the subdevice field on the Functions tab. Then Entering 4 in the OBC column yields 45338 as the EFC.

Standby is D212 47 210.18 OBC 71 = 45016.
Give those a try.

dstew100 · Post by **dstew100** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:05 pm

3FG wrote:The Onkyo spreadsheet shows that Zone 2 Power On is D211 04. Translated from Hexadecimal it is Device 210, Subdevice 17, OBC 4.

We know from the Lookup Tool (link above on this page) that the 7820B carries the NEC1 Combo executor under setup code Audio 1298. Using RemoteMaster, and selecting NEC1 Combo executor, we can enter 210 into the device field and 17 into the subdevice field on the Functions tab. Then Entering 4 in the OBC column yields 45338 as the EFC.

Standby is D212 47 210.18 OBC 71 = 45016.
Give those a try.

Wow, that's exactly the process I was looking to understand, thank you very much for walking me through an example. Bwahahahaha, one minor detail I got wrong... The cable is plugged into the zone 3 jack and is a bit of a pain to get to. Your zone 2 trigger works perfectly regardless. I'll try to figure out zone3 tomorrow using your example, or just switch the cable... Unless you would like to provide me with one more example of course

Thanks for the help, greatly appreciated.

dstew100 · Post by **dstew100** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:12 am

WooooHoooo...I was able to figure them out

Zone3TriggerOn 45082
Zone3Triggeroff/standby 44760

Took some fumbling in my first use of RM. Eventually ended up with some input fields like you discussed in the "Device Upgrade Editor". It had the "Sub Device" and "OBC" fields but not the "Device" field you mentioned. I assume it still worked because I either had the right kind of device or correct setup code entered into the SW on prior screens...maybe??? Is there another way to go about the conversion with the three fields all together?

Thanks for the example, saved me a ton of time and effort and probably some money.

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:43 am

UEI executors (subroutines, really) take fixed and variable data as inputs. In RM, the fixed data is shown on the General Tab, where one also selects the executor to use. You can't directly edit the fixed data, but in this case, the fixed data is derived from the device number. So setup code Audio 1298, as built into the 7820B, can only send device 210, because that's stored as part of the setup code. (If you had a cable, you could use the NEC1 Combo (00B6) executor, and assign some other device number as part of the upgrade.)

The variable data is different for each function, and in this case contains the subdevice and OBC. When you make a keymove by entering an EFC, you are only affecting the variable data. There is no way (without a cable) to change the fixed data. So you could enter anything into the device field, and it wouldn't affect the EFC, nor would it affect the behavior of the remote.

So it wasn't really necessary to enter the device number, since you're using a built in setup code, but I find it useful to by habit enter the device numbers. That's because in some instances, an executor store several device numbers in the fixed data, and part of the variable data is flag bits that select which of the device numbers will be used with a given function. Once again, with a manually programmed remote, the fixed data can not be changed, and a common mistake is to change the device numbers in RM to be different from the built in numbers. With these more complicated executors, as part of manual programming, it is important to make sure that the fixed data displayed in RM is identical to the fixed data seen in the Lookup Tool. That way, RM will display accurately the device numbers that will be actually sent by the remote.

dstew100 · Post by **dstew100** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:14 pm

3FG wrote:UEI executors (subroutines, really) take fixed and variable data as inputs. In RM, the fixed data is shown on the General Tab, where one also selects the executor to use. You can't directly edit the fixed data, but in this case, the fixed data is derived from the device number. So setup code Audio 1298, as built into the 7820B, can only send device 210, because that's stored as part of the setup code. (If you had a cable, you could use the NEC1 Combo (00B6) executor, and assign some other device number as part of the upgrade.)

The variable data is different for each function, and in this case contains the subdevice and OBC. When you make a keymove by entering an EFC, you are only affecting the variable data. There is no way (without a cable) to change the fixed data. So you could enter anything into the device field, and it wouldn't affect the EFC, nor would it affect the behavior of the remote.

So it wasn't really necessary to enter the device number, since you're using a built in setup code, but I find it useful to by habit enter the device numbers. That's because in some instances, an executor store several device numbers in the fixed data, and part of the variable data is flag bits that select which of the device numbers will be used with a given function. Once again, with a manually programmed remote, the fixed data can not be changed, and a common mistake is to change the device numbers in RM to be different from the built in numbers. With these more complicated executors, as part of manual programming, it is important to make sure that the fixed data displayed in RM is identical to the fixed data seen in the Lookup Tool. That way, RM will display accurately the device numbers that will be actually sent by the remote.

Roger that, appreciate the guidance and education on how this stuff works. I should be able to figure out what I need to now.

Now here's the real question, even if I get this remote set up the way I expect do I really want it, hmmmm. I'm really disappointed in the software and some of the limitations. Even with these new skills, it is still going to be a pain to get configured the way I want. Should I have gone another direction??? I don't like the harmony's.

Edit: I'm referring to the Acoustic Research Xsight Touch (ARRX18G)

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:22 pm

I've just bought a Xsight ARRX12G (not a Touch) with the intent to see if we can add upgrades much like we do with JP1 remotes. I think we will be able to do that, although I'm less sure about the Touch. But it will likely take some time before we get that going.

I do agree that the Xsight software is, at best, irritating.

Post by **vickyg2003** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:29 pm

dstew100 wrote:Now here's the real question, even if I get this remote set up the way I expect do I really want it, hmmmm. I'm really disappointed in the software and some of the limitations. Even with these new skills, it is still going to be a pain to get configured the way I want. Should I have gone another direction??? I don't like the harmony's.

Edit: I'm referring to the Acoustic Research Xsight Touch (ARRX18G)

Yes, you obviously should have gone the JP1.x route, with our software, and our cable.

Actually I thought the price of the cables for JP1.x was coming down.