This might be common to you guys, but I don't understand this yet.
I have a piece of equipment that the original remote works find for ON or OFF regardless of what "mode" it's in. It's a philips audio receiver that has a built in DVD player. The two "modes" I use on it are "TV" and "DI" (digital input). I've learned the POWER button from it and I can't find a version of it that works in all cases like the original.
I learned the POWER button several times to see if it changes each time it's pressed. Maybe it will help you give me some insight. Here are SIX learns of the same BUTTON on the original remote:
1 AUD 1 RC6 4 199 C7 244 T=0
2 AUD 2 RC6 4 199 C7 244 T=1
Then I pressed "TV" on remote BEFORE I learned POWER:
3 AUD 3 RC6 0 12 0C 050 T=1
4 AUD 4 RC6 0 12 0C 050 T=0
Async6:496-513:B0.35..69.FF 85 85 105 B0 35 55 55 69 FF
5 AUD 5 RC6 0 12 0C 050 T=1
6 AUD 6 RC6 0 12 0C 050 T=0
Async6:496-512:B0.35..69.FF 85 85 105 B0 35 55 55 69 FF
The results from the learned above are as follows: 1 and 2 will turn it ON. 3 and 4 will turn if OFF if it's in TV mode, but will NOT turn it ON.
Please help me understand!
Power "toggle" works on original remote, but can't
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insaneoctane
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vickyg2003
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Hi insaneoctane,
Most of us would rather see the IR or RMIR file rather than have the decoded summary posted in the thread.
In this case the original remote uses an RC6 toggling protocol. The toggle is the T= portion of the protocol decode. In many cases you can't use "learns" at all to control the tv, because the buttons won't work more than once because a "learn" doesn't toggle the toggle, it just plays back the recorded signal. In addition, the universal remotes often have the toggle bit in the wrong state when using an upgrade or an EFC which requires the button to be pressed more than once in order for the TV to react....
In my experience using RC5 and RC6 protocols on a universal remote gives very poor performance. RC5 and RC6 protocols don't play nice with macros. I've replaced nearly all my RC5 equipment, because the protocol just doesn't lend itself to automation. The universal remote has one toggle state that is used for all the devices on the remote, so it easily gets out of synch for one specific device. In addition some of the RC5 equipment I worked with had different toggle states for different groups of buttons, and your universal remote just doesn't have that capability built in....
Now in your case, you've thrown a MODE into the situation to complicate things, so I can't tell if its just the toggle changing or if the whole signal changes as well.
So questions to you,
1) Are you using learns, or an upgrade where the TV won't turn on?
2) If you turn on the unit with learn #1 will learn #2 turn it off?
I hope this helped a bit....
Most of us would rather see the IR or RMIR file rather than have the decoded summary posted in the thread.
In this case the original remote uses an RC6 toggling protocol. The toggle is the T= portion of the protocol decode. In many cases you can't use "learns" at all to control the tv, because the buttons won't work more than once because a "learn" doesn't toggle the toggle, it just plays back the recorded signal. In addition, the universal remotes often have the toggle bit in the wrong state when using an upgrade or an EFC which requires the button to be pressed more than once in order for the TV to react....
In my experience using RC5 and RC6 protocols on a universal remote gives very poor performance. RC5 and RC6 protocols don't play nice with macros. I've replaced nearly all my RC5 equipment, because the protocol just doesn't lend itself to automation. The universal remote has one toggle state that is used for all the devices on the remote, so it easily gets out of synch for one specific device. In addition some of the RC5 equipment I worked with had different toggle states for different groups of buttons, and your universal remote just doesn't have that capability built in....
Now in your case, you've thrown a MODE into the situation to complicate things, so I can't tell if its just the toggle changing or if the whole signal changes as well.
So questions to you,
1) Are you using learns, or an upgrade where the TV won't turn on?
2) If you turn on the unit with learn #1 will learn #2 turn it off?
I hope this helped a bit....
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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insaneoctane
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Ok.
1) Are you using learns, or an upgrade where the TV won't turn on?
These results are with the learns
2) If you turn on the unit with learn #1 will learn #2 turn it off?
I think I tried all combinations. In my head what I wanted to find was a single upgraded command that would function as ON and OFF like the original remote.
If you can think of some helpful, logical learns/questions to troubleshoot getting to a single button that does both, like the original, I'm all ears!
1) Are you using learns, or an upgrade where the TV won't turn on?
These results are with the learns
2) If you turn on the unit with learn #1 will learn #2 turn it off?
I think I tried all combinations. In my head what I wanted to find was a single upgraded command that would function as ON and OFF like the original remote.
If you can think of some helpful, logical learns/questions to troubleshoot getting to a single button that does both, like the original, I'm all ears!
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vickyg2003
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And as I said, learns won't work because they don't flip the toggle bit. So you'll have to use EFCsinsaneoctane wrote:Ok.
1) Are you using learns, or an upgrade where the TV won't turn on?
These results are with the learns
And every fiber of my JP1 training is screaming that you messed up on this step. Every thing points to the toggle in the signal being the culprit.2) If you turn on the unit with learn #1 will learn #2 turn it off?
I think I tried all combinations. In my head what I wanted to find was a single upgraded command that would function as ON and OFF like the original remote.
Using the information from the learn to create an upgrade or use the EFC against a built in upgrade should work just fine, except that sometimes you'll need to press a key twice to synch the remote to the device.If you can think of some helpful, logical learns/questions to troubleshoot getting to a single button that does both, like the original, I'm all ears!
It depends on how ridgedly the device manufacturer enforces the toggling rules, and how many toggles the OEM remote is tracking, but protocols that toggle the signal with each button press can be extremely difficult to use in macros. RC5 and RC6 are two protocols that change the toggle bit in the signal each time the button is pressed.
So if you are wanting to use this key in an ALL-ON macro, its likely to fail a lot. I gave up on using RC5 in a macro, but then that was early in my JP1 days, before I got into all the fancy JP1 tricks (extenders, toadtogs, and writing my own protocols). I often wish I hadn't given away the TV that caused me all that trouble, because now I could probably make that macro work, but I'd have to use all my training to get it to go.
Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
I'm not sure I understand the first post, but it appears that the OEM remote sends RC6 device 4, OBC 199 for Power toggle when the remote is in DVD mode, but sends RC6 device 0, OBC 12 when the remote is in TV mode. I can't tell when the IR signal decoded as async6 is sent.
If you want help with this, please learn the signals for each possibility (mode or the state of the RC6 toggle bit) and post the resulting IR or RMIR file.
Also, as Vicky says, there may be a toggle bit issue. BUt we'll only know if you do some experiments with the OEM remote. Try:
1) in DVD mode, tap the Power toggle button
2) Cover the IR transmitter(s) on the remote and tap Power toggle again.
3) wait 15 seconds
4) Tap Power again while pointing the remote at the receiver.
Does it toggle the power? With this sequence, the receiver should get two IR signals with the same toggle state. If the receiver has a toggle timeout, then the power may be toggled.
Try the same thing in TV mode.
Even if a correctly toggled IR signal is required, there may be a workaround for use in macros, since apparently the receiver responds to two different IR signals. Try making an upgrade with the two RC6 signals, and see if alternating the two signals always toggles power, even if you cover the IR transmitter part of the time.
If you want help with this, please learn the signals for each possibility (mode or the state of the RC6 toggle bit) and post the resulting IR or RMIR file.
Also, as Vicky says, there may be a toggle bit issue. BUt we'll only know if you do some experiments with the OEM remote. Try:
1) in DVD mode, tap the Power toggle button
2) Cover the IR transmitter(s) on the remote and tap Power toggle again.
3) wait 15 seconds
4) Tap Power again while pointing the remote at the receiver.
Does it toggle the power? With this sequence, the receiver should get two IR signals with the same toggle state. If the receiver has a toggle timeout, then the power may be toggled.
Try the same thing in TV mode.
Even if a correctly toggled IR signal is required, there may be a workaround for use in macros, since apparently the receiver responds to two different IR signals. Try making an upgrade with the two RC6 signals, and see if alternating the two signals always toggles power, even if you cover the IR transmitter part of the time.
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vickyg2003
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Ahh, that is one of the things that I never thought of... My Philips Magnavox equipment holds its toggle state forever. It's the universal remote that doesn't hold its toggle state. So even if I hide the other remotes, I am quite likely to have to double tap a button on the remote to get the TV to react after changing channels on the STB.3FG wrote:. If the receiver has a toggle timeout, then the power may be toggled.
I have noticed other people don't seem to have this kind of problem, but I hadn't thought that maybe it might be that other people's equipment times out. I do know that pressing a different button between the presses often allows the device to accept the next signal, no matter what the toggle state, alas for my circa 1997 TV's no joy. Proper toggle state is required. I wish I still had the one that was giving me fits. Now that I have a widget I could actually see which buttons were tied to the same toggle state, and maybe have figured out a way to mimic that or circumvent that in a macro.
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insaneoctane
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