$5 DSMs $15 ToadTogs, Price for being confused: Priceless ;)

[nikon]

(To the mods: If I don't have this in the right section, feel free to move it )

Hey all,

I didn't know where to put this, as I've got most of the novice-to-amateur stuff down - building the interface, learning to use KM to write device upgrade files, installing extenders, etc...

Well, I'm making the transition from doing all that to wanting to use ToadTogs, DSMs, and special protocols (maybe even writing some down the road), but even after looking through the documentation, I still find my head spinning, even for a puter geek like me. Is there any easier to understand documentation, or do I just have to take it one word at a time, and get out my handy-dandy notebook, and start actually taking down notes and stuff? I mean, learning how to use KM after going through some examples was pretty easy, but this... phew!

Ok, let me get more to the point of what I'm wanting to use this stuff for, and maybe with some examples, I can pick it up faster. As a couple of the experts (including Rob) have read, my roommates aren't the sharpest tools in the shed . So what I want to do is at least try (if at all possible), and make macros (possibly via DSMs & ToadTogs), to where if they say... want to watch cable, and have it in surround sound cause they heard this movie they want to watch is killer in it. I want it so all they have to do is press either TV or CBL on the remote (TV preferably), and everything turns on, switches to what it's supposed to be on for them to do this. (Now granted, I'm no dummy, but I'll admit to my laziness and would like this functionality as well. )

Now, I've tried using macros, and nested macros, but I keep catching myself in infinite loops, is this where X_DEV (device specific X_Cancel), or X_Cancel would come into play? Or is there another way of doing it via the items in this post's subject?

Thanks for all the help in advance!

-Nikon

[johnsfine]

Now, I've tried using macros, and nested macros, but I keep catching myself in infinite loops, is this where X_DEV (device specific X_Cancel), or X_Cancel would come into play?

I'm only guessing, because you didn't give any example of what you wanted a key to do nor what sort of macro you tried in order to do it.

My guess is that you don't understand the fact that with this extender the ordinary device keys no longer have their ordinary meanings.

Device keys only have whatever meaning you give them by defining macros or KeyMoves. To actually select any device for anything you need those special device selection commands (which aren't physical keys, so they can only be used in macros).

[nikon]

Hey John,

Actually, I've been up all night working out a Macro tree using the X_DEV and X_Cancel commands. What I was doing before was (and this is because I haven't quite figured out how to go about using ToadTogs, but I'd like to learn because this would make this go much easier) was combining a device macro with a function macro. Like taking your ABCD example from the extender readme that you wrote, I would setup A for the device macro, and then have it refer to the function macro B, but in doing so, becaue I wasn't using the X_DEV commands, it would be a regular reference back to the device macro A from B, therefore causing an infinite loop. So I went back and reread the part on using X functions to make macros with, and it's been going a lot better.

Now my problem is switching between device modes. I have the device keys set up so that say.. one of my roommates wants to watch a DVD, so he/she hits DVD on the remote and presto, everything turns on relating to watching DVDs, and switches, so now all they have to do is hit play, but.. now they decide they're sick of watching the DVD and want to watch regular Cable TV. So at this point, they have the DVD player on, TV on, Amp on, and we need to get from that to having the DVD player off, cable box on, and Amp switched (with TV still on of course). So, I guess my question is, how do I accomplish this without using ToadTogs, and without the power on the devices getting "out of sync" with the remote?

You know, I took a look at that file someone posted in January on the Yahoo files that "tries" to make understanding ToadTogs easier, and I started skimming through it, and it wasn't much easier to understand. I'm about ready to give up.... *sigh* I'll keep working on these trees, and maybe I'll get it.

(Edited to add...)

This would also be a lot easier if it was more than just the Amp that had seperate on/off EFC/OBC codes, then I could just have the macros toggle the power on and off for each device more efficiently.

(Again edited to add...)

Yeah, I figured that out about the extender early on - now it's just a matter of getting everything to fit right - it's kind of like working out a big knott in a ball of yarn.

Thanks again for the help.

Later,
Nikon

[e34m5]

Nikon,

I've uploaded my 8810w file here.

It has ToadTogs and SKP/LKPs that I am quite sure are like what you are trying to do.

The TT's are for on/off (look at Phantom1 and Phantom2). The LKP is such that a short press jut sets the device and a long press triggers the macro for all on.

The power key has an LKP so that SKP is normal power and LKP is an all off macro.

If you have more questions, ask....

[Oinge]

Nikon,
I have successfully implemented TTs and LKP to accomplish the setup that you refer to that was desctibed in the January post and the one it referred back to as well. If I can do it I know you can do it.

I printed out all the extender documentation as well as those two posts and read them several times and referred back to them many more times. For me the paper copies worked much better than reading on the screen. I took one device at a time and just built the macros one step at a time, testing them all along the way, until I got the hang of it. I had two DUDES and 4 TOADS in my component mix.

e34m5 sent me a file that is probably the same as the link in the preceeding post. This should help you as well.

One thing I want to do sounds like what you are wanting to do. ie when switching viewing modes not only turn on and configure the devices needed, but shutoff the devices that won't be needed. I haven't gotten very far done this path due to time constraints.

Good luck.

[nikon]

Nikon,

I've uploaded my 8810w file here.

It has ToadTogs and SKP/LKPs that I am quite sure are like what you are trying to do.

The TT's are for on/off (look at Phantom1 and Phantom2). The LKP is such that a short press jut sets the device and a long press triggers the macro for all on.

The power key has an LKP so that SKP is normal power and LKP is an all off macro.

If you have more questions, ask....

Hey, thanks a lot! I'll check it out, and let you know what I think.

(Edited to add...)

Hopefully that will help me figure them out. Thanks again!

-Nikon

[nikon]

Hey Oinge, thanks for the response. That's probably what I'm going to end up doing is printing some stuff out, and making references to it. Not this weekend though - the wife would kill me. Well, so far so good with the macro trees. In fact, I've got pretty much everything done, just working out the on/off spacing signals for my VCR. It's an RCA, and I think with the original remote, it seems to send out a double 'on' signal, because I tested manually on the 8810w with a single press, and nothing, and then did a quick double press, and it came right on. 'Off' signals seem to be normal though, just need to work out the spacing inside the macro still - I think it's picking up the TV signals as well because of the same protocol usage, and taking the time to decipher them from it's own signals. I had a similar problem with spacing out the commands to go in the menu on my TV (yes, again RCA), and changing it from S-Video for my digital stuff to analog for the VCR.

I'm going to try and get more into the ToadTogs with DSMs because it sounds like the best option work everything out. Right now, the shifted version of my number pad on the remote is filling up, and the X-shifted version is getting there. I'm going to do some macro cleaning and trimming later - just getting it to a point where everyone can use it right now.

Anywho, thanks again for the advice.

-Nikon

[nikon]

I just looked at your config, and I think I follow how to use TT's now, and it definitely looks alot less confusing than these macro trees. It also looks like you used some macros with your key moves via the hex commands, is that correct? My other question is, how do you figure out the (hope I can word this right) ways to go about setting up a TT in terms of the bits and that? I mean, are they general usage, and can be used with any setup code? Or do you have to make them specific to the device you are planning on using them on? Judging by your config, it looks like they are specific to what device you're planning them for. Can I assume that's correct without getting bashed in the head with a big NO sign? LOL

Off to print out the instructions, and maybe I can figure it out from that.

Thanks again, to all of you, for trying to help me out,
-Nikon

[e34m5]

For TT's remember that each on bit has a corresponding off bit. So make sure that for each device you are using the correct pair and that you are using a different pair for each device.

[nikon]

Ahhhh, I see, tyvm!

-Nikon

[nikon]

Nikon,

I've uploaded my 8810w file here.

It has ToadTogs and SKP/LKPs that I am quite sure are like what you are trying to do.

The TT's are for on/off (look at Phantom1 and Phantom2). The LKP is such that a short press jut sets the device and a long press triggers the macro for all on.

The power key has an LKP so that SKP is normal power and LKP is an all off macro.

If you have more questions, ask....

Hi there,

I've looked over your configuration, and with my better understanding of TOADs and DOADs, I translated the hex commands, and broke it down, and was able to figure out where you used each of these, along with the LKPs and SKPs, BUT (yes, there's always one ) what I can't figure out, is the first key move you have on there. I can see where you used it in the regular macros, but what I don't understand is why you moved it in the first place. That's my only question. The rest I've figured out, and I must say, it's very well done. I may end up using your TOADs to apply to my stuff, if you don't mind. It is just what I need to save as much memory as possible with the little memory I have left now after my cable box upgrade - that thing spent A LOT of memory on key moves.

(Edited to add...)

I've looked further since I originally posted this hours ago, but I came across something else I didn't understand. I've been sitting here readjusting that config to fit my remote, and setup, but I'm looking at your L1 and L2 macros, and as far as I can tell, those, and the keymoved button I asked about earlier are all specific to your setup, is that correct?

Thanks again!
-Nikon

[e34m5]

The first key move is just a trick used to include delays in macros. Basically using the setup code VCR0039 you create a key more for "records" to a device where it doesn't apply, like TV. The one can insert this anywhere in a macro that needs a delay.

For L1 and L2 you are correct those are specific to what my system requires to set corresponding components to view either DVD or SAT.

I hope this helps..keep asking.

[nikon]

First off, no problem about the delay, hope you had fun at wherever.

2nd, I think that about covers all the questions I had, I figured out the rest, and I ended up using a different delay. In fact, I had the delay in there before I even got into using the fancy stuff because with my stupid TV, which is an RCA, the signals were overlapping each other because it couldn't process them fast enough, so it kept getting stuck in the menu changing from Vid to S-Vid for my digital stuff, lol. Oh, and you never said whether or not I could use your config, so I hope you don't mind that I did, and just tweaked it for my stuff. The remote's pretty much set to how I'm going to need it for quite some time, now - just need to make a couple minor adjustments, and I'll be done.

Thanks again for all the help!

-Nikon

[e34m5]

No prob...of course you can use the config...